An Orthodox Person’s Theological Analysis of Interracial Marriage

monks_light_family“If it is a source of joy and glory to men to have children like unto themselves – and it is more agreeable to have begotten an offspring then when the remaining progeny responds to the parent with like lineaments (characteristics)– how much greater is the gladness of God the Father, when any one is so spiritually born that in his acts and praises the divine eminence of race is announced!” –The Treatises of St. Cyprian of Carthage, p 1012.


For centuries it was just assumed that people of differing nationalities would naturally seek a spouse from among their own tribe or ethnos. And until modern times this was by and large the universal practice of both Christians and non-Christians alike. What has changed this in recent times is the ongoing march of Cultural Marxism, aka Political Correctness, in both the education system by day and the television system by night. We are now at the point when the above statements would be taken by most people as an affirmation of racism and hatred. Yet, in the not so distant past these views would have been taken as common sense and natural, as well as, demonstrating patriotic love for one’s own people.

“For just as each animal mates with its own tribe, so it is right that each nation should marry and cohabit not with those of another race and tongue but with those of the same tribe and speech.”  –Emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus, Page 75 of the English translation of “DE ADMINISTRANDO IMPERIO.”


So what is “natural?” Well, according to most dictionaries it would mean according to nature. Nature would, of course, refer to how the created world works. We, as Christians, see creation as an act of God; nature is something that He designed in His infinite Wisdom and continues to sustain. In Genesis we see that God brought forth creatures to reproduce after their own kind and therefore the attraction that one subspecies has toward members of it’s own kind cannot be denied. As the Wisdom of Sirach says, “Every creature loves it’s like, and every man his neighbor; all living beings associate by species, and a man clings to one like himself” (Sirach 13:15).  Or as the old expression goes, “Birds of a feather flock together.” It becomes strange for one specific kind to be attracted to a member of a different kind. So much is this the case that the book of Tobit calls it an act of pride for a person to wish to marry someone of a different tribe. One could even make the argument that it violates the commandment to honor thy father and mother, especially in the case where the father would forbid such a marriage.

“I want my grandchildren to look like my grandparents.” –Jared Taylor on the subject of interracial marriages.

Not only is it problematic for the reasons mentioned above, but it also becomes a more serious problem when one considers the implications it would have if everyone started to intermarry. In the words of Father Stanley Harakas, “The Church holds that nations were created by God. Consequently, total intermarriage would destroy the races which God created. The Church has never advocated or encouraged racially mixed marriages.” And, I would say, with statistics stating that people of European descent (Caucasians), will plummet to a single digit (9.76%) by 2060, the European race’s destruction may become a reality.  As for those “Orthodox” Internationalists whom would claim nationality (race) is a social construct, I provide the words of one of the twentieth century’s foremost theologians. Fr. Dumitru Staniloae, helps us understand in his Orthodoxy and Nationalism:

“A man pure, without nationality (race) is an abstraction. Since there cannot be an apple without the genetic determination of a certain kind, it is more evident that there cannot be a man without individual national (racial) determination.”

As a personal aside, I believe that such cases where interracial relationship occurs it is usually the case of some sort of “forbidden fruit lust” where a man or woman is thumbing his or her nose at their parents and heritage.  I cannot read a person’s heart, but if this is the case it would certainly be sin against the love of father and mother.

146 Comments

Fr. John+

Ortho Mike- that’s all well and good, but what kind of parents would we be, bringing innocent babes into a world so evil and full of incarnational sin?

Better to work for the restoration of Christendom, and then we can (like the ancient Israelites, after dispensing with the ‘goyim’) dwell secure under their own fig trees, in our ‘green and pleasant lands.’

Little Guy

I must say there is only one thing any of us can do, and that is continue to have faith in the True God, and follow his rules. If people like you and me continue to avoid interracial marriage, then we are doing our part. People of these times would ridicule the Orthodox Church if we try to do more than avoid doing the unnatural ourselves. This ridicule could potentially turn away people who are searching for God’s infinite love.
I must also tell you Ortho Mike, having more white babies will not fix the problem. We should set an example for everyone else to follow, (by marrying among our own kind). It needs to be a change in ideals, not baby making rate.

Blessings.

Fr. John+

“I just don’t think you can bitch about plummeting white birth rates and how we are dying off, and not have kids.”

I wasn’t. but I understand where you are coming from….

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

You people are real deep theological thinkers, I can see that. So, now that Heimbach isn’t commenting for you any more, you don’t come out and use the “Nazi” word, but you’re still Nazis. I’ll go one step further: those of you who pretend to be Orthodox priests in this conversation, if you share these views, you need to have the ever-loving shit knocked out of you. In Russian and in Greek Orthodoxy we have Fools for Christ. I didn’t realize that there was a category called “assholes for Christ.” By the way, I use my real name, because I speak the truth. You people are chicken shits, and that goes double for the clergy.

Orthodox Mike

Hey Werner, how about critiquing the actual contents of the article and its Patristic quotes? There’s a novel idea, huh? No, yall can’t do that, yall rely strictly on emotion and political correctness and post Enlightenment thought.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Tell me, “Orthodox Mike” [what a bunch of bullshit]. What does your confessor say about it? How about your bishop? I don’t need to engage in polemics on it, because the Church already has.

Orthodox Mike

Yes, the Church already did is correct. And the Fathers correctly talked about the Deicides, about blessings and curses, and about identity, and we do not violate this. Maybe your modernist academia in pseudodoxy don’t like it, but so be it. Orthodoxy doesn’t revolve around Schmemann and Puhalo, thank God!!!!

Kyril Klimakos

Whether or not a modernist priest disagrees with you on a topic is irrelevant if the Church Fathers agree with you. A lot of modernist bishops and priests are Ecumenists and Unionists, but the Saints of the Orthodox Church were strictly Anti-Ecumenist and Anti-Unionist. There were many times in Church history when bishops and priests departed from the True Teaching of the Church. When bishops and priests teach falsely they simply do not represent the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church.

Fr. Matthew Harrington

So I have many concerns about this article and that it attempts to coop the Orthodox Church into this view.

Regarding the quote” how much greater is the gladness of God the Father, when any one is so spiritually born that in his acts and praises the divine eminence of race is announced!” What race is the gladness of God the Father? When ANYONE is spiritually born..that his acts..indicating he has been born a new person..and who were the Apostles sent out to preach the Gospel to and make disciples of???? ALL NATIONS. Those who are united to Christ..make sense?

Then your quote of Sirach…if you look at the verse above it, it says, Every living creature loves its life, and every man his neighbor….who is my neighbor? I think the conversation about bishops also needs to be examine..what do the Apostolic Fathers say about Bishops? Ignatius? Clement, and Polycarp? Etc..I suggest it is very valid to ask who your Bishop is and it should not be understood as an insult but rather a way to confirm you are in fact in the Orthodox Church. The fact the Church has never condoned something is not a valid argument form silence in my opinion…it simply means that we marry Orthodox people to Orthodox People..no matter the race or nationality. The comment from Fr. Dumitru I would say you may be taking him out of context but I have not read that particular work so I will hold comment until I can.

tradyouth

.I suggest it is very valid to ask who your Bishop is and it should not be understood as an insult but rather a way to confirm you are in fact in the Orthodox Church.

It surely has nothing to do at all with the orchestrated campaign of threats and public attacks that target any and all clergy who are perceived (correctly or not) to offer us refuge.

Do you or do you not think that the simple act of honoring and preserving one’s ethnic identity is a grave sin in the Orthodox Tradition warranting immediate denunciation and excommunication? Yes, or no, Father?

Kyril Klimakos

Father, In the first quote I was putting the emphasis on “it is a source of joy and glory to men to have children like unto themselves” and the naturalness and Godliness of this concept. It is natural to desire to have children that look like us including racially. This is not denied by the Church. Do you deny it?

In the Sirach quote I put the emphasis on, “Every creature loves it’s like.” Again this is according to nature, the nature that God created.

Since I do not consider this issue to be a dogmatic or spiritual one, I do not consider my bishop’s opinion on it to matter much since he is a man and men have opinions on lots of things. And even if I did, he is not infallible. Are you and your bishop infallible?

Father, in your opinion, do you believe race exists? And if so do you believe God created the races? And if so are they worth preserving? Would the world be just as well off if one race ceased to exist? Or do you think God doesn’t care about this issue at all?

Orthodox Mike

This was once attempted in the distant past… It was called the Tower of Babel. The first time a faceless, raceless, attempt at globalism was launched. Father, with all due respect, you can say we are taking Sirach and St Cyprian out of context all you wish.. I suppose there’s another Globalist context I should take Tobit 4 in also? And would you denounce such great Orthodox men like Frs George Calciu and Justin Parvu, who were unapologetic Legionaries and never denounced the Legion, even until the end of their days? Or the much quoted great Russian Saint, John of Kronstadt, who belonged to the ultranationalist Black Hundreds? You have to understand, loving your own ethnos and wanting to preserve it as being a part of the unique mosaic that God created isn’t the same thing as hatred or supremacy. It isn’t considered bad when nonEuropeans do it. Why is it horrible when those of European descent do it? Why are just OUR people a ‘social construct’? The hypocrisy of the modern world boggles the mind.

Fr. Matthew Harrington

To try to paint this question in a yes or no question I think is one of the issues. What does, “Honoring and preserving” entail? That is where we can start to talk about the contours of the issues. Orchestrated campaign makes it sound as if you are “victims” and perhaps that is the underlying psychology at play with this type of question. It seems to me that you and your following are upset because what you thought was Orthodox was not and you got called on the carpet for it. That is hard for anyone to take. So show me how “honoring and preserving” does not turn into racism. Perhaps that is the underlying desire or maybe your mission and purpose attracts those types. I do not read anything here does not seem to be a soft of Tom Metzger or the like. Was what you guys putting out and your refusal to turn away from worthy of excommunication…Your Bishop thought so! That is how this thing works.

Kyril Klimakos

Father, since you do not speak for the Church as a whole, in fact you probably speak for the worst part of it, I feel totally free to disregard your analysis of this article.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

You guys are truly amazing, and have a real good command of euphemism as well. Joseph Goebbels would be proud of you. If you don’t want to mix with Blacks, don’t do so. Why make a big issue out of it for anyone else? I’ll go ahead and fly with a couple of questions you’ve posted. Forget what some Romanian may or may not have said: our Lord said it differently, and so did the real Church Fathers, none of whom were Legionaries. There is no racial distinction. I’ll had the scientific background: because there are no genetic markers which differentiate race. Now, let’s get back to those of you who have the temerity to reject priests and bishops. What gives a bunch of kids that right? Once again, not a Legionary, but a real Church Father, said “Where there is the Bishop, there is the Church.” Personally, I really like your role models. Heimbach, a pudgy fat ****, talking about racial superiority is quite amusing. And getting his theological support from the KKK and the Nazis. Real good move. And all of the rest of you using fake names. Just like real Nazis. You are demonstrably imperfect physical and mental specimens, yet you can’t resist your outbursts. It was as Lyndon Johnson pointed out, white trash need their ******* to look down upon. Hey, Fake Greek deacon, tell me one thing: what are you afraid of? “Orthodox Mike” What are you afraid of? And you fake priests out there, what are you afraid of? I know what you’re afraid of: not all of us Orthodox are pussy priessts like the one who received Heimbach. If he had been received at my parish, I would have loudly objected, and spit upon him. Nazis need to be stomped. We can say a Trisagion afterwards, but they still need to be stomped.

Orthodox Mike

You still didn’t answer my question. Was Frs George Calciu and Justin Parvu of Blessed Memory, and the great St John of Kronstadt, WRONG for being ardent and unapologetic nationalists for their peoples? I don’t believe any differently, and I am quite insulted to be compared to such a Nietzschean charlatan like Metzger. I was schooled in my faith initially by Old World traditional Orthodox monastics and clergy, Elder Justin Parvu via his spokesman being one of them (Memory Eternal). I think your Americanism is clouding your thoughts on the issue, since we were conceived by post Enlightenment, Classical Liberal Masons and Deists, and radical egalitarian beliefs and hatred of aristocracy is the crux of the founding of this proposition ‘nation’.

Orthodox Mike

As an afterthought, Father, how do you feel about the Afrocentric Orthodox group, Society of St Moses the Black? I do not have a problem with it, but believe I am entitled to the same benefits without ignorant condemnation.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Which benefits would that be, “Orthodox Mike?” The Brotherhood (not Society) of Saint Moses the Black is a small and integrated group (about 30% of their membership is white), and does not have silly objectives like creating a racial homeland in the United States, nor as miserable a sense of history as these clowns. They are also not out on the street trying to cause trouble. But then, no one in that society has to hide under a fake name and no one in that group is ashamed to mention their bishop’s name. Perhaps it’s because they’re not completely full of shit?

Orthodox Mike

Or perhaps it’s the ridiculous double standards in this godforsaken land. How about that? By the way, I suggest you read Fr George Calciu : Interviews, Talks, and Homilies. It may enlighten you to be a truly ‘enlightened conservative’, as you like to describe yourself.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Request and suggest all you want when you become a real person, “Orthodox Mike.” I have a hard time taking suggesting from persons who are such chicken shits that they can’t even stand up for their own beliefs. By the way, for those priests – if they indeed are priests – like that on this board, I would love to slap some sense into both the priest and the pussy bishop who tolerates them, but they are cowards just like you are and won’t come forward.

Fr. Matthew Harrington

Mike and Kyrill

My comments were directed towards Matt Parrott response. I should have addressed it as such. Kyrill, I find it a tad Ironic that you dismiss my comments while carrying the title of the article as it is.

Mike as far as the Brotherhood of St. Moses the Black I think it is wonderful and I submit this statement taking from their website.

“Over two thousand years ago, a young Virgin and her Child found refuge in Africa from threatening forces. Since that time, Christianity has developed extensive roots in Africa. St. Anthony and the Desert Fathers kept the Church from worldliness and preserved the mystical gifts. St. Athanasius helped write the Creed. St. Cyril kept the Church from dishonoring Christ and His Mother. The African Martyrs gave the Church courage. The African Mothers gave the Church philosophers like St. Katherine. The hermitesses like St. Mary of Egypt and St. Sarah of the Nile showed the path of contrition, redemptive suffering and repentance.

In modern times, there is a renewed fountain of ancient Orthodox Christianity. It is flowing throughout the entire world. This flow of spiritual life does not negate the rich tradition already developed in the crucible of suffering and the triumphs of character in America. Rather, it beckons all Americans to row into deeper waters – the waters of the ancient Christian movement. This has been kept alive in the Eastern Orthodox Church.”

You will note how they point to such themes as The Saints, The Tradition of the Church, The Martyrs, Repentance, and the Eastern Orthodox Church. They do not focus on being black, African, but Orthodox. They address Americans and call them to discover the Orthodox Church…I see this as commendable.

Mike..I will have to do some reading before I can respond to your question about Elder Justin and Fr. George.

In Christ

Fr. Matthew

Orthodox Mike

We love our European culture too, and personally, would love everyone to be Orthodox as well. You say they do not focus on being Black… Then why does it even exist? There are plenty of Orthodox groups already in existence. Charities, societies, and the like. Well, I, too, am proud of Europe’s role in Christendom as well, just as they are proud that Our Savior and His Holy Mother fled to Africa (albeit it wasn’t subSaharan Africa, but no matter).

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Most Western Europeans do not consider Greeks to be Europeans, any more than they consider Turks to be Europeans, and frankly, the people who call themselves Greeks today have more shared genetic markers with Turks than they do with classical Greece. Likewise, most Western Europeans consider Romanians to be not a whole lot better than that. Almost anyone with a measurable IQ considers Legionaries to be scum. Not just the Romanian ones, but the Russian and Serbian ones as well. Extremism is not needed, and frankly, if it is to be right wing fascist “Orthodoxy or Death,” I’m all for helping them find the way to death. Let’s get serious, “Orthodox Mike.” Why does it bother you that there’s a society? What difference does it make? It’s not divisive. It doesn’t call for any anti-Orthodox action. By the way, unlike your very vocal fat **** Matt Heimbach, I am physically fit, a trained and decorated soldier, and Orthodox too, and would have no problem extending the right hand of Christian fellowship to you – in either way.

Thomas Buhls

“I am physically fit, a trained and decorated soldier, and Orthodox too”

Congratulations, join the club. From one (disabled) vet to another (not disabled) vet, don’t throw around the I’m-a-soldier card like it’s really going to win you the argument. The only thing that that I’m-a-soldier cards are _really_ good for is getting a free meal at Applebee’s, Texas Road House, Chili’s, and Golden Corral on Veterans Day.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Tom, I threw out that card because the violent Nazis in the form of Matt Heimbachj are NOT people who ever served their country. They are troublemakers.

Thomas Buhls

Implying that the only way that men or women can serve their country is through military service.

I’m pretty sure that God blessed the troublemakers. They’re the only ones who ever get anything done.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Not implying anything of the sort. I am stating that self-professed Nazis are not serving this country and need to have the everloving shit kicked out of them.

Orthodox Mike

Murika. Legionaries were scum, huh? You disgrace the memory of some of the best and holiest monastics and clergy the 20th century ever saw. Wave the red white and blue flag of Masons and Globalists, and cheer on your own destruction… Oo ra…

Fr. John+

Hey, SCHMUCK face. [Answer a fool according to his folly… Proverbs]

I don’t fear you, nor do I respect you. With a name like yours, I doubt you would even have an Orthodox phronema, let alone the pneuma. Of course, with the vulgarity and foul language, it’s almost a given you aren’t regenerate.
Clearly, you don’t know, nor do you respect Holy Scripture, or the Fathers. At least the Word is clear:

“Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.
20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.
21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.” Ps. 139:19-22

You clearly come on here, graceless and senseless like any common dog, and expect to be treated as a human?

Thus, my calling a spade a spade (or a kike a kike)- you don’t DESERVE the respect of a Christian, let alone a gentleman. But that’s typical of liberals, sodomites, and Deicides: they are ALREADY ontologically racially, culturally, and religiously at the bottom of the barrel. You clearly have never read St. John Chrysostom’s cutting remarks and denunciations in his sermons, and talks, against the same type of cochons like you, during his lifetime.

You also don’t know the first thing about confession, absolution, and a clear conscience. Perhaps you have been brainwashed these last sixty plus years by the Jewsmedia, to actually think you know either Christendom, or American culture, prior to 1962. Therefore, to dare to question a person’s soul, his state of righteousness (Do you fast, do you pray, do you even CARE for Christ!?) is nigh unto blasphemy. As the article on atavistic, altruistic, and academic [sic] ‘racism’ by Mr. Parrot makes clear, no amount of empirical data can convince a fool whose mind is as dark as his soul. You, sir, are one of those men.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Hmm. . . I get the impression the jackass who calls himself a priest thinks I’m Jewish. Sorry about that, asshole, but my ancestors were Christian when Romanians were still swinging from trees and Russians hadn’t even gotten that far. You know a lot of fifty cent words, but you are completely clueless, in addition to being nameless. And — you still don’t have a bishop! Look, dipshit, it’s not blasphemy when you call a vagante an asshole. People who use words like “Jewsmedia” need to have the shit kicked out of them. I don’t care whether they think they’re Orthodox or not. I must have missed something though. What’s the significance of the 1962 date? Is that supposed to mean something to me? By the way, I do not speak against God in any form. I speak against self-righteous assholes who pretend to be priests. If that’s a problem, take it up with my bishop. I’m sure I will be counseled on my use of coarse language during my next confession. But I don’t pretend to be a priest. You do. While you’re flailing around with the syphilitic idiots of the Legion and the Iron Guard, it might do you well to recall that there are numerous saints out there, and cherry picking their quotes is the sign of a brain dead undergraduate, you know, like Heimbach. I could really give a rat’s ass what Saint John Chrysostomos said about Jews, because frankly, he said all sorts of other things to. Being a saint does not make one perfect. It makes one a saint. Maybe in your weird Romanian ecclesiology it means something else. But speaking of fathers, how about that Irenaeus? “Where there is the bishop, there is the Church.” What Irenaeus did not say was “unless the bishop is a modernist,” and he also didn’t say “Don’t ever reveal who your bishop is, so as to avoid embarassment when the bishop finds out what kind of Wallachian sheeplovers he installed as priests.” You are afraid of me, “priest.” You are very afraid of me, because I have uncovered you as a racist asshole and supporter of Nazis. And yes, very soon I will know who you are, and who your bishop might be – if you have one, which is still somewhat doubtful. And then, yes, I will make sure that everyone knows it. I detest Nazis and Nazi sympathizers, and genuinely believe that what happened to Valerian Trifa, the piece of shit war criminal the OCA installed as an archbishop, needs to happen to every one of the Nazis and Nazi sympathizers in this country.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Who’s your bishop again? And what was your name? Pretty big man talk on your part for someone who claims to be clergy but doesn’t have a name. I repeat my previous offer. If you support these neo-Nazi rants, and your bishop is cognizant of that, you are not an Orthodox priest, you are a dickhead, and deserve the censure of the Church. And your bishop? Don’t make me laugh. But then again, this is the page which celebrates Romanians, and who could ever forget that the Romanians in the US had a Nazi sympathizer war criminal as an archbishop. I really don’t care how many self-appointed “saints” there are in the Legion and in the Iron Guard, I piss on all of them. As I do on all Nazis.

Fr. John+

“and who were the Apostles sent out to preach the Gospel to and make disciples of ???? ALL NATIONS.”

Fr. Harrington- Peace be unto you. Unlike Werner, you claim to be lawfully ordained, Orthodox, and posessing the Holy Spirit; and yet, you don’t know the Greek of the N.T.?

The words that we have for ‘nations’ [pl.] in most English mis-translations, is the Greek word, ‘panta ta ETHNE’- At first sight, one might think the panta means ALL without discrimination; but the root of panta, is ‘pas’ which clearly means “…”each, every”) means “all” in the sense of “each (every) part that applies.” The emphasis of the total picture then is on “one piece at a time.” All nations that APPLY. So, what the phrase “all nations” means, is not all hominids/countries on the earth, but merely the plurality of the race (ONE) that already existed in the ‘world’ [ECUMENE] of the apostles. You know- all Irish, Swedes, Rus, Greeks, Spaniards, even Carthaginians, as all ‘apply’ to that ONE ETHNE- or ‘race’ of the ECUMENE of ‘Europe.’

Or are you willing to say that Christ was a ‘Gentile,’ simply because Galilee of the ‘Ethne’ is what St. Matthew wrote in his Gospel 5:14, of that part of Palestine? Or, are you willing to admit that Christ, the Galileans, and the Jerusalemites were all of that ‘Chosen People’? (But not the Edomites- clearly, John 8:44, the prophecy of Obadaiah, and the predestined actions of Judas of Edom, (Iscariot) were NOT of that ‘chosen race’)

So, the term ‘nations’ as applied to ALL COUNTRIES of the Modern Era, cannot be said to be the meaning of the Scripture text, or of the minds of the First Century, AD. That is what is known as Eisogesis, not exegesis. Moreover, the praxis of the Orthodox “Ecumene” prior to the Roman Schism of the 11th Century, was largely not to go beyond the bounds of what we now call, Europe. Why would that be the case, unless our Fathers in the Faith realized that the prohibition to NOT go into ‘Asia’ (as broad as that term meant, then, as now- cf. Acts) was still regnant in their time. Lastly, it is not to the Orthodox, but to the Romanists, we have to thank for the perversion of the ‘call of the Gospel.’ When the Papists added the Filioque, and abandoned the Faith of the other 4/5ths of Christendom, it was no coincidence that the ‘universal jurisdiction’ ecclesiology of Rome, soon added to it the ‘universal salvation of all hominids,’ precisely because Rome took the place of the Holy Spirit, via the Filioque! When you are the equivalent of the Third member of the Life-giving Trinity, you can claim anything you want! And that’s precisely what Rome did. Or Does St. Photios, and the anathemas against this Creedal innovation mean nothing to you?

Beyond that, (the boundaries of the Ecumene, as the Apostles (and the Roman Empire of the day) clearly noted by the Holy Spirit, who did not intend for the Gospel to go ‘east’; at least, if Acts 16:6 is any indicator- and I believe it is, for sufficient reasons. [ II Tim. 3:16]

What does ‘prevent’ or ‘forbid’ mean to you? Well, the word “kōlythentes” is that word- from kóluó: “to hinder.” And the majority of Orthodoxy’s self-witness, at least until the Modernist Modern Era is concerned, pretty much stayed within one racial phenotype- as the Greeks are clear to point out- Greece is for the Greeks. There’s a REASON for this. There’s a reason for understanding the heresy of the modern era, known by many names- Pan-heresy of Ecumenism, Multiculturalism, Multiracialism… call it what you will. But it’s all clearly spiritual (and physical) genocide, if you merely listen to their most prominent spokesmen and errr. ‘women.’ Some examples? Noel Ignative, Susan Sonntag, Nicholas Sarkozy, Tim Wise,……

No, God incarnated into ONE Ethnicity. That is the miracle of the Incarnation. And, as the Last Adam, it clearly was predicted that ‘He will save HIS PEOPLE from their sins.” [ Matt. 1:21] And NOT the ‘goyim.’ Why, even the faithless Jews know that, while they mistakenly apply that ‘one people’ mantra to themselves. Should not the Church of the First Born, instead, those who are the “Elect from many [European] nations” do the same, if we TRULY ARE that ‘Chosen People (not peoples!), Royal Priesthood (not Many priesthoods!) and Holy Nation (not NATIONS!!!???)… rather than apply heretical papist concepts and marxist mantras of ‘all one race, the Human race’ and corrupt our Holy Faith?

Which is the Gospel? Christ, or Obama? For many American pseudo-dox, it appears to be the latter… even in the wake of Ferguson. And that’s a pretty damning indictment, if you ask me…for anyone.

Fr. Matthew Harrington

My Bishop is Bp. Peter of Cleveland (ROCOR)..for the record.

Your two previous posts “Fr. John+” seems to display the point attempted to be made? I will say your treatment of scripture is one I have not encountered often in the Orthodox Church but seems to be consistent with the theme of this Blog and group.

Kyril Klimakos

We are not Nazis, KKK, CI or any other such groups. We are simply Orthodox Christians that are trying to understand the role of ethnos in God’s creation, how humanity can be at the same time “one” yet also with major “distinctions.” We look to the Church Fathers and Eastern European Clergy for these answers. We believe to a certain extent that a lot of today’s clergy (especially American) cannot provide a fair assessment of these questions due to the philosophical matrix of the modern age. We do not blame them for that, we just believe that they cannot escape it due to their upbringing. Some of us are convinced that few will unshackle themselves from the chains of the modern and post-modern mindset in order to be even a little objective, that is sad,and that is where the real problem is. Appealing to ones bishop all the time is not the answer, studying these issues from a total Orthodox Church experience with an open mind is. By the way I have had conversations with my former priest, who was originally from Crete, and who is 100% “Canonical,” and he pretty much agrees with me on the topic of race. Orthodoxy is not about blind Oo ra authority, it is about Truth.

Orthodox Mike

Listen to Weiner von Sammich make all kinds of bigoted statements about Romanians and Russians. What a tool. Go and fight and die for the State of Israel, while you wave the rag of tri colored treason. You aren’t even fit to tie the shoes of a Valerian, or a Father Calciu, or even be in the same room with an Elder Parvu. Typical neocon zombie. Neo Nazis? Yeah, OK. That’s a good one. Anyone who loves his ethnos and knows that truth about your Zionist masters are neo Nazis according to people like you.

Orthodox Mike

My Roman ancestors were building aqueducts and empires, Weiner, while yours were still in animal skins hiding in the Black Forest.

Fr. Matthew Harrington

Kyril:

Personal opinion is the domain of a free individual. What your opinions and race are yours, I completely disagree with them and oppose them. What bothers me even more is this group and yourself promote your opinions as if they were Orthodox. That is where you cross the line. The Orthodox Faith is incarnated into a society and changed. What the Fathers teach is the human soul ill from sin is treated within the Church, within a community of believers, within whatever country it is in. So your former Priest agrees with you? How are a few opinions ever considered the way of the Church? I agree it is about Truth and the Church of course is the Pillar and Ground of Truth. While this group is fond of citing a hand full of modern fathers and one or two Saints. Werner does have a valid point and I think it was made many times…who is infallible? Only Christ..and I would say we should balance on whole what the Fathers say throughout time..that is the Orthodox approach to the Fathers.

In Christ

Fr. Matthew

Orthodox Mike

How is saying ‘we love our people and wish continuity of our uniqueness’ opposed to the Faith???? Would you tell a black man this, Father? Or a Palestinian? Your assessment is very skewed. You already have a preconceived notion in your mind that we are ‘haters’ etc. It is false. You are like the majority of Americans, being molded by the media and horrible modernist, post Enlightenment thought. I am a monarchist and a European Traditionalist. I don’t see how that is not in conformance to Holy Tradition. I have many Arab Orthodox friends, under Antioch and Jerusalem, and they really couldn’t understand why Matt was excommunicated (WAS), or what the big deal was. But lilly white Murikan WASPs are the most ‘offended’. Please spare me. It’s ridiculous.

SimplyFred

Every Mexican female (legal or illegal) in the United States is going to have seven, mostly illegitimate children. These children will all be raised on ADC Payments (read white taxpayers taxes). Why is this group waiting for divine inspiration, for guidance from above?

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Well now, that didn’t take long! Thanks, guys, I’ll stick to being a real person who’s a bit obscene from time to time. At least I don’t wear a sheet! This guy does, but then agan, maybe he’s a “Traditionalist Youth” and kisses the ass of Traditionalist Romanian racist “saints”. Massive fail, idiot boys.

Orthodox Mike

Simply Fred, no offense, but your comments are off topic. This article deals with how faith and ethnos are viewed together. Many of us believe that Peoples aren’t simple biological entities, but rather have a triune nature, not a one dimensional nature- faith, culture, and biology all come together to make a Folk. And language as well. The biological reductionist types that keep gracing ourselves with their presence are the stereotypes we do not wish to entertain.

Fr. Matthew Harrington

Orthodox Mike:

Is Christ divided? What is it then to be in Christ and love your neighbor as yourself? When St. Peter received the vision and God telling him do not call unclean anything I have called clean..he was referring to who? What does it mean to pick up our crosses and follow after Christ? For God so loved the ??? That he gave his only begotten Son? Your group promotes your view of what “love for race” as the teachings of the Orthodox Church..and that is why your friends who refused to repent of their error were excommunicated…period. You may add whatever narrative makes you feel better..but they entered into a very real arena with real ramifications for our words and actions. As far as I know they still hold their own fate in their hands.

Orthodox Mike

Father, I do love all peoples. But does wanting to discard our uniqueness or genocide a particular branch of Humanity jibe with the unity of Christ you are speaking of? I assume you have children . I assume you have neighbors. Would you bestow gifts and accolades upon your neighbor’s children and belittle and punish yours for no reason other than they are yours? That is a microcosm of what I am saying.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

No one is forcing you to mate with Blacks, Mexicans or anyone else, Mike. So why are you concerned if anyone else does it?

Kyril Klimakos

BASES OF THE SOCIAL CONCEPT
OF THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH

II. 3. Christian patriotism may be expressed at the same time with regard to a nation as an ethnic community and as a community of its citizens. The Orthodox Christian is called to love his fatherland, which has a territorial dimension, and his brothers by blood who live everywhere in the world. This love is one of the ways of fulfilling God’s commandment of love to one’s neighbor which includes love to one’s family, fellow-tribesmen and fellow-citizens.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Showed your true colors again, “priest.” No one here mentioned Obama except you. You are one ****** up dude, and if you have a bishop who tolerates you, tell him I think he’s a pussy who needs to be defrocked, as do you. But you won’t tell him I said that, because he would have to investigate why I’m talking the way I do, and if he really is an Orthodox bishop, the only person to be censured would be your worthless ass. That is, unless he’s Uncle Viorul’s love child. By the way, show me the council which anathemized multiracialism. Not only are you a racist, you are a stupid racist. No one gives a rat’s ass what Romanians who were associated with the Legion and the Iron Guard think. I’m very proud to say that I worked on the identification of the war criminal Trifa as well as numerous other fake Orthodox war criminals. You know, “priest,” maybe you should stick to your friends in the ranks fo the Wallachian sheep fornicators. That’s about all you and your fellow Nazis are good for. Romanian “saints.” What a laugh. You have the termerity to challenge a canonical ordained priest of the Orthodox Church, who immediately replied with his episcopal lineage, just the way Irinaeus envisioned it. I see that this has not been a priority for you. You’re a ******* hypocrite, “priest.”

Fr. Matthew Harrington

From the same source:

II. 4. At the same time, national sentiments can cause such sinful phenomena as aggressive nationalism, xenophobia, national exclusiveness and inter-ethnic enmity. At their extremes, these phenomena often lead to the restriction of the rights of individuals and nations, wars and other manifestations of violence.

It is contrary to Orthodox ethics to divide nations into the best and the worst and to belittle any ethnic or civic nation. Even more contrary to Orthodoxy are the teachings which put the nation in the place of God or reduce faith to one of the aspects of national self-awareness.

Opposing these sinful phenomena, the Orthodox Church carries out the mission of reconciliation between hostile nations and their representatives. Thus, in inter-ethnic conflicts, she does not identify herself with any side, except for cases when one of the sides commit evident aggression or injustice.

Kyril Klimakos

At the same time it does not negate anything that either Mike, or I have said. We do not hate, wish to belittle, or wish violence upon, people of other races. We do not put race above God. We do not think our race is better then any other. We do not have an “irrational’ fear of other races. We do not seek a total avoidance of people from other races, in fact we have no problem going to communion with them. We do not wish to restrict another race’s true God given rights (as opposed to post enlightenment humanistic so-called rights). We do not wish to put our nation in the place of God or reduce faith to one of the aspects of national self-awareness. Finally, we do also agree with the implications of the above in the respect that, we believe that our race is the victim of evident aggression and injustice.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Very nice, Kyril. So if that’s true, how come Matt Heimbach conducts interviews with self-professed Nazis? Why does Matt Heimbach not only agree with them publicly, but endorse their plans of action? And why do the associated clergy not list their bishops?

Kyril Klimakos

You Father are the one who insists on believing we are Nazis, Metzgerites, KKK or whatever. May God forgive you for your prejudice and bigotry.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

No, Kyril, it’s Matt Hembach who publicly declaims it. Deny that please.

Kyril Klimakos

I believe miscegenation is the method that our politically correct leaders are using to commit genocide ( evident aggression and injustice) against my race. I therefore oppose it with my whole heart.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Let me see if I understand. If I were to have a sexual dalliance with a black woman, a greek, or a romanian this somehow constitutes violence against you? Wow! No wonder you’re so afraid. In my younger years I did this all the time, and with Russians and Serbs as well. I must be a real genocidal maniac. PS, Kyril? They loved it too!

Fr. John+

Well, if vulgar verbiage is an indication of one’s spiritual estate, I merely stand by the corroboration of your ‘reply.’ Moderator, it is time to ban such utterly graceless trash from your site. For the unregenerate do not receive the grace of absolution, being unrepentant to begin with… oh, and Romanists don’t even have the grace to offer absolution.

FYI.

Fr. John+

Fr. Matthew, if you are ROCOR, then you know the joining of Narodnost and Orthodoxy that defined ROCOR for most, (if not all) of its’ existence in the West, is highly normative within Russian Culture- both before the Soviets, and after Gorbachov. Why, the veneration and elevation to sainthood of the Romanov relics is part and parcel of this element of the deification of one’s ancestors. In Western terms, it’s called ‘the Communion of Saints.’ Not KKK, CI, or even ‘Werner’s Anti-Nazi’ foaming at the mouth.

Narodnost- or the joining of the culture/race and church is not unusual within Russian Orthodoxy, nor is it unusual within Greek Orthodox thought. Why, the entire concept of ‘Symphony’ in Orthodox statecraft is predicated on one simple thing- the Hierarch cares for our souls, while the Ethnarch cares for our bodies, and our nation.

What IS unusual, is the desire on the part of a number of Anglos to seek to apply it to OUR race, OUR nation, OUR situation. And that, in itself, is an ‘unusual’ treatment of both Scripture, History, and orthopraxis. So, I am not surprised that you might not recognize your own faith, because, if you are in ROCOR, you have been trained, and taught to ONLY see things through a ‘Russian Filter.’ It’s not the Russians’ fault, but it IS the fault of the Hierarchs who don’t seem to understand that we are not in Russia. Were I to iterate the same statements in Russia, people would say, “Oh you are a Monarchist, a Dugin-ite’ and dismiss it. Because I say it in the USA, idiot savants like Werner can only knee-jerk a ‘Nazi’ reply.

And therein lies the reasons for our captivity. When small-minds cannot believe that Neal Gabler in his ‘An Empire of their own: How the Jews invented Hollywood” was speaking the Truth (even as a Jew) http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v09/v09p243_Wikoff.html
Or when Michael Bradley (also part Jew) can clearly point out how HE has been made persona non grata,
http://www.michaelbradley.info/books/iceman/iceman_promo.html

Or when every analysis of the Banker Bailout of 2008, had Jews in the title roles of being the recipients of the Government’s Usurious (jewish money lending) printing presses (even acknowledged as [sic] ‘anti-semitism’ by Jews themselves)
http://archive.adl.org/nr/exeres/86ad2ff6-2600-484c-a489-eed337e3eb20,db7611a2-02cd-43af-8147-649e26813571,frameless.html

-you begin to fear for the simple sanity of the American electorate, if Werner is any indication!

As to ‘this website’ I find even I am alone in iterating the realities of race, culture, and the desired ANNIHILATION of the White Populace of the USA, and wonder why I, as a Mark of Ephesus, must watch the destruction of my homeland, while no one else seems to care.

If you (or Werner) want to see a [sic] ‘nazi’ site, then take alook at these demographics, and explain how this is beneficial to Christendom? (Such hate verbiage merely is a Keugel/cudgel of the Jews to demonize the one modern state that actually had ‘their number’ and is far, far better- as a state- than the accursed Obamanation)

http://www.dailystormer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/This-is-What-an-Actual-Holocaust-Looks-Like.gif

Fr. Matthew Harrington

Kyrill:

I appreciate your attempt to shift this back to me..it is obvious you are entrenched in your views and if I need forgiveness then I ask God for it. I think there is ample information on this site and secondary interviews to warrant my concern and the fact you are qualifying your position as the Orthodox view? I think lack sobriety about the faith and you are bending it to your own agenda…

Fr. John+ I am also waiting to hear who your Bishop is as you seem to embodied my concern. I will be glad to engage in a conversation once I can establish you are legit.

In Christ

Fr. Matthew

Fr. John+

Fr. Matthew- I am waiting for Trad youths moderator to allow my prior response. When that is done, I’ll address your concerns.

Fr. John+

Dear Fr. Matthew: I would hope that, with my prior post now online here at this site, we can communicate more clearly. As I noted in my post from yesterday, the determination of ‘canonicity’ is fraught with all sorts of problems; since, by the very definition of Orthodoxy, we do not possess a “Magisterium” or a “Papacy”. Which is also why I am no longer a Papist; the very indwelling of the Holy Spirit in a believer, under a competent authority, bespeaks (to a degree, but only to a degree!) the ‘priesthood of all believers’ that the Reformers in the West spoke of, when challenged by Rome.

But, as we are neither Romanists nor Lutherans, but Orthodox, we cannot (nor should not) look to some external ‘final court of appeal’ nor ‘one’s own inner conscience’ as the ultimate bar, for ‘determining orthodoxy.’ As the Anglicans have rightly noted of ‘Church councils’…’they may err, and sometimes have erred, even in things pertaining unto God,” [Art. XXI] – Rome is the supreme example of that. And private conscience? Well, we know what the ‘Democracy of the Individual’ can lead to, when it comes to following the Oracles of God. If it were a reliable witness in contradistinction from Rome, well, then, we’d be all Baptist, now wouldn’t we? (shudder)

But what of the Church in the modern world? Does not our own Fr. Seraphim Rose note that, ‘in the end, ALL the Churches will serve Antichrist’ ? If that is the case, (and it appears to be more and more so, with each passing day) why should we (who are Christ’s, and NOT the world’s) blindly follow the modern world’s Weltanschauung (world and life view) when it comes to Nationhood, Personhood (who is an ‘American’, ‘Russian,’ or ‘Greek’) and membership in a local Ethnic Church? And that is EXACTLY what is going on, in the intemperate discussion of Race, Religion, and Region via this column. An Orthodox Layman notes what certain Fathers have said, and what happens? All Hell breaks loose!

As Americans of Anglo ancestry (and Harrington sounds rather ‘English’ to me, so I include you in that umbrella) we are NOT Russians, Greeks, or Serbo-Croatians. We are Englishmen, for better or for worse. And we should both inculcate and emulate an ENGLISH national expression. We once did, and the remnants of that English-ness are still embodied in the older Service Books of the (amazingly) Antiochian Archdiocese, with the ‘thee and thou’ Language, and the Psalter, both of which were derived from St. Tikhon’s actions, aided by an Anglican Laywoman, Ruth xxxxxx (whom he hired), whose use of the BCP in the translation of the Service Books into ENGLISH, was demonstrative of that older, ‘patristic’ desire to have ROOTS in one’s National Expression of Faith. St. Tikhon was PRESCIENT in that action of his- and all subsequent hierarchs since then, have trampled on that wish of the great Enlightener of America.

But today, all we seem to have, are continual inferiority complexes suffusing Orthodoxy: from liberal Political demagogues (Dukakis and Stephanapoulos come to mine) to squabbles and turf battles (It was a wise move when Iakovos walked out of the first SCOBA talks, even as he later came in, while priding himself that he stood ‘in solidarity’ with MLK!?!?!?).

This malaise- this ‘sickness unto death’ (to borrow from Kierkegaard) is present among even the convert clergy- demanding ‘canonicity’ tests, and then, making such comments such as this “…all Orthodox Christians in America—need access to the spiritual riches of Orthodoxy in the Middle East.”
http://blogs.ancientfaith.com/roadsfromemmaus/2014/06/02/facing-antioch-hopes-for-the-antiochian-archdiocese-nominating-convention-and-beyond/

While ALL of Orthodoxy has much to teach us, we ALREADY have our own English tradition, as the English Orthodox Priest, Fr. Andrew Phillips and his book, “Orthodox Christianity and the English Tradition.” Instead of these pusillanimous arguments over ‘legitimacy’, (again, is Barack REALLY a ‘legitimate’ president? If so, WHY? If not, why do we suffer him one minute more?!?) wouldn’t it be better to seek to do that which the Russians spoke of, at the point when THEY were imbibing the same Rationalist, Enlightenment ‘kool-aid’ a hundred years ago, as this article makes clear? The comments made then was a very important discussion the Rus of that era needed to have, and sadly DIDN’T. Do we WISH to suffer the same fate, in the 21st Century’s Marxist Mulatto Metrosexual ‘Paradise’? Or, are we going to have petty internet discussions over ‘canonicity’?

http://souloftheeast.org/2014/06/27/what-is-nationalism/

I thiank God that I just found this young man’s website, because here (at least) we have an English voice, telling us what the Russians THINK, without having to resort to what some ‘Pravda’ source TELLS us what these Orthodox Rus ‘meant’, rather than what they REALLY meant! And it puts to rout the folly of the “Werners of the World.” (those men who worship Merkel, Barack, and the Bogus Blairs of Blase Britain)

To that end, I think it would be best to hear from Tikhomirov, and not just dismiss this as somehow viewed through a jewish lens that equates every expression of racial self-awareness, nationalist sentiment, and a desire to ‘live among one’s own’ as mere [sic] ‘nazism.’ As Orthodox, we do our parishioners, our synods, and our nation a great disservice, if we merely spout the rhetoric our Spinmeisters SAY we should spout.

I prefer to serve Christ, and not Belial.

<<>>
“So in order to have a future and become a movement both progressive and salutary, contemporary nationalism should foremost develop within the masses that certain understanding, that Russian (American?) consciousness found by this time only among individual thinkers. And in this regard, it is imperative to elucidate to the mass of society and the people the very conception of [white/European] nationalism.

In actuality this conception and this principle are clear in the higher degree and bring us to the conclusion that we should be ourselves. The nation, the people, as an individual person, has its special character and metaphorically speaking, its own personality. This character is created both by tribal particularities (Tribal!? that sounds ‘racist’! – lol) and the circumstances of a people’s historical existence, (‘..for US, and OUR Posterity’) its own labors for its organization, its moral and intellectual work, etc. Nationalism is the principle by which we should live in accord with our national characteristics, for only founding a life in conformity with them may we direct it and live happily, may we work energetically and productively, raising our nation, and giving through its work something useful for humanity in general. (This sounds postively ‘Hitlerian’- gasp! lol)

For those who understand the principle of the content of nationalism, it is completely clear that we can be nationalists only inasmuch as we are imbued with the knowledge and spirit of our historical existence, the knowledge and spirit of our people in the past and present, the knowledge and spirit of our ancient institutions and all that has been developed by our nation. Only by being Russians (American, French, English Orthodox) in such a way, in spirit and in substance, are we capable of creating our present and our future nationally.”

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Okay, that took almost 75 posts, but it was worth it. Now that we have all of the pseudoscholarly bullshit out of the way, here’s what the “priest” John really had to say.

1. I have no bishop, and therefore I am not a canonical priest.
2. Because I am not a canonical priest, I reject the canonicity of those who do fall under canonical guideliones, prefering to make it up as I go along.
3. I am a convert who couldn’t get along with the Cayholic Church, so I became Orthodox. Much like Matt Heimbach, once I got to Orthodoxy, I discovered that they – just like the Catholics – thought I was full of shit with my ideas on white power and race, so I sought to create a seaparate reality.
4. I discovered this group of kids who tolerate my presence because I give them legitimacy, at least in their eyes.

You’re amusing, “self-anointed priest.” What you are not is Orthodox, unlike Father Matthew or myself. We are. We have some edges, and we have a long way to go, especially me. But we’ve both overcome one hurdle already: we are Orthodox, and the entire Orthodox Church will accept us at the chalice.

Hey, “priest,” what kind of ordure do you serve in your chalice? Do you piss in it? That would fit with your attitude on the priesthood. One of the first things they’ll teach you at a canonical seminary is “It’s not about you.” That’s a lesson neither you, nor Heimbach and Parrott, nor “Orthodox Mike” nor “Kyril Klimakos” has learned. “It’s not about you.” Fucking heretic.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

You’re really a fucked up dude for someone who callls himself a priest, “priest!” You make Heimbach look like a philosopher. Who did you say your bishop was, chicken shit?

Fr. Matthew Harrington

“Fr. John”

Does this mean you are not going to tell me who your Bishop is like you said you were going to do? Are you a clergymen of the Orthodox Church or claim to be such?

I do find it interesting how the Kyrill cites the Russian Church and “Fr. John” states the Russian view I “have been taught” is flawed. I would ask “Fr. John” to serious consider why you are alone in your handling of scripture and the Fathers?

You continue to prove my concerns with your comments. Your article you posted from the Orthodox Christian Information Center says to me you do not likely have a Bishop and you are setting yourself up as some Pillar and Defender of Orthodoxy even aligning yourself to St. Mark. So, if you want me to take your seriously..a simple answer to a simple question is required.

In Christ

Fr. Matthew

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Some folks engage in extracurricular boinking with members of the opposite sex. You guys engage in extracurricular boinking of the Orthodox faith. And “Orthodox Mike” remains a sophomoric asshole. I remain amused.

Orthodox Mike

You are a typical example of everything that is wrong with the West today. If I am sophomoric, you are absolutely infantile and urbane.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Let me see if I have this right. You use constructions like “Weiner von Sammich,” and think I’m Jewish despite the fact that my pedigree is a good thousand years older than yours is, and you accuse me of being infantile? I don’t think the word means what you think it means. You’re good for laughs, and that’s about it. Face it, you, and the other Nazis, are irrelevant. At least you aren’t pretending to be a priest, which is rather like the ultimate in infantile arrogance on this blog. What are you concerned about, Mike? Was your daughter or your wife one of the ones I boinked previously? Just carrying out my genocidal designs. . .

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Hey, dipshit “priest!” Your German is as bad as your Greek. You might impress the sophomoric Nazis with the erudition, but you don’t impress me. What the **** do you think you are saying with “Keugel?” The best weapon for dealing with clowns like you is ridicule, because you’re not worth anything else. I piss on you, “priest!” The arrogance of comparing yourself to Mark of Ephesus is amusing.

SBDN Thomas

A high birth rate is a natural consequence of spiritual maturity. Unlike the Jews we Orthodox don’t see s barren wome as a curse from God, but we do see children as a great blessing. Rearing children is also a pathway to heaven. Even a “white martyrdom” at times.

Nations much like individuals reap the results of the state of their spirituality.

No one with any knowledge God can deny America and the west (Europe, East and West) is a deep spiritual decline. Our low birth rate is a natural out growth of Americas turning away from God. It’s as if we are in the “days of Noah”again.

Americas time for repentance I feel may soon be over. A server chastisement from God awaits America. Lord havr mercy.

A reminder to anyone who is Orthodox.
When you address a priest you always start by saying “Bless me Father”. Even if you disagree with him, or don’t like him. Our priest serve the Devin Liturgy and as such are Icons of Christ. Always show respect for the priesthood.

SBDN Thomad a sinner

SBDN Thomas

Can you supply a referance to where your data comes from?

I would dare to say most Europeans claim Greeks as fellow Europeans. lazy, but Europeans none the less. LOL.

SBDN Thomas a sinner.

Orthodox Mike

I never accused you of being Jewish, Weiner. You have me mixed up with someone else. I know you’re a typical self hating American of kraut descent. How are your ancestors older than mine. when yours were in animal skins while mine were building empires?

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

I’m sorry, “Orthodox Mike.” You praise Romanians so much that I – possibly wrongfully – assumed you were of Romanian ancestry, and I didn’t realize that boinking sheep was “empire building.”

Fr. John+

Fr. Harrington: You did not listen to a single thing being said, did you? I don’t have time today to go into depth on this, but that you and ‘Werner’ are both coming from the same P.O.V, I can only surmise you and he are in league with one another. And, if Werner were MY parishioner, well, I’d wonder at my pastoral skills.

Read what I said, note the sources. Dismissing ‘orthodoxinfo’ because you disagree with the oversight of the site, is akin to saying “I’m going to take my toys and go home.” More later, when I can give your questions ample time.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Hey idiot boy! You don’t have a parish, brecause you are not a priest. I wonder about your pastoral skills too, but you’re pretty good in the fiction deparftment. Who’s your bishop, again? No, I dismiss you because you are a liar and as full of shit as a new calendar Christmas goose.

Fr. Matthew Harrington

“Fr. John+”

I am familiar the OCIC and am friends with the Orthodox man who owns the site it is not an end all be all site but has articles on the faith usually in themes to help people understand the faith and some of the contours of it. It seems you are attempting to teach the Orthodox how to be Orthodox when you cannot answer the most basic and simple question who is your Bishop. I have not read your sources because you have not warranted the effort giving your elusiveness on the question. You may be able to some degree cite history but the way you synthesis it is flawed in terms of extracting anything that is Orthodox from it. My issue with this is the same as with any group that purports to be representing Orthodoxy falsely. Werner is not my parishioner and he has his issues which are out of my scope of pastoral care.and seeing his replies he is aware of them. I see this as a deflection of the question.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Father Matthew cuts to the chase, and is quite aware that my issues, of which I am also painfully aware, are a matter between me and my canonical confessor. And there’s the rub! I ahve a canonical confessor, and unlike the self-anointed “priest” John, I am already Orthodox, so at least that part of my potential salvation has already been attained. None of this changes the fact – and it is a fact – that the “priest” John is a faker, a poseur and a pompous ass. Why don’t you just get off your ass and find yourself a real bishop? You might be surprised at our wonderful faith, even if they don’t tolerate Nazis.

Orthodox Mike

Father, with all due respect, we are not trying to represent anything falsely. Sure, it’s a different paradigm than the typical Classical Liberal, flag waving, American claptrap, but Orthodoxy shouldn’t concern itself with fake proposition nations that were created as Masonic experiments in secular radical egalitarianism. I know I don’t speak for the Church and accept all of her dogmas. It is my prerogative to wish to mate and care about my own ethnos. This is not contrary to Church teaching. We are not trying to create dogma. Ethnicity was how God made us. Weiner’s knee jerk responses of ‘Nazis’ is ridiculous. I have no love for Nazis. I admire the Orthodox Nationalists that fought them, as in Greece and Serbia. I believe exactly as the Church always believed concerning ethnicity and nations. I am a monarchist, as all the Fathers and Saints were, and to quote the Russian Synod of Bishops, I see my ‘brothers of blood’ as part of my nation, wherever they may be.

Kyril Klimakos

I believe Matt is growing, as are we all. He has made some decisions in the past that may have lacked prudence, as have we all. I can only tell you that, at this present moment, he fully agrees with this section of “BASES OF THE SOCIAL CONCEPT” as do both Mike and I.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

If that is the case, you could perhaps advise him that 99% of his utterances on the internet are racist. “We seek to establish a white homeland in North America.” What is it you don’t understand? How about those interviews with the Klan and the Nazis> “We share the National Socialist ideology.” Kyril, if you want to be taken saerriously and not treated like a Nazi, don’t hang out with Nazis.

Orthodox Mike

You must be really bored. All out of women to ‘boink’. You grace this site like a diehard supporter! Many thanks. LOL

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Given the choice between boinking and listening to Nazis like Matt Heimbach, I’m afraid there is not much of a choice.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Since this is one of the more dorked up formats for doing a blog, I have no idea what “excellent article” you might be talking about. But since the Metropolitan was actually my bishop for quite some time, I’d be interesting in hearing what you’re talking about. Of course, for the last five or so years of his life, he was pretty senile, so if the piece dates from then, there are two possibillities. (1) He didn’t write it. (2) It doesn’t speak for the Church. And if this was cranked out when he went vagante, who cares?

Nabil

Hello. I came to this site through a friend of mine, ironically, a Muslim. I am an Orthodox Arab-American. More precisely, of Palestinian descent. I see the attacks leveled against these men, and the name calling. I really don’t understand what all the criticism is about. I challenge anyone to tell me my nationality is unimportant. No one I know in my parish would say this. We Palestinians are a distinct people, and Israel is wishing to eradicate us, both Muslim and Christian. I am glad to see some other Orthodox Americans speaking up and standing against Zionism for their people. Recently, the government of Israel attempted to divide the Palestinian people, and wanted to label us Christian Palestinians as “Aramaeans” instead of Palestinians. The Jerusalem Patriarch firmly opposed this as a divide and conquer program by the Jewish State, and rightly so. The only nazis I see are the Israelis and their Western supporters.

Kyril Klimakos

The article of which Mike is referring “Belye Negry” “White Negros” is translated from Church Messenger [Tserkovnyi Vestnik]: Monthly Magazine of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia in Canada, February 1971.

Kyril Klimakos

Here is just one beautiful excerpt:

“There is no man without a nation or tribe, nor is there a religion without a nation, just as there is no nation without a religion. These two phenomena are mutually dependent and cannot be separated either in time or in composition.

Every internationale is in fact a struggle against the nation, a struggle against the God of a given nation or against that nation’s religion. But even the internationale, while by its nature it struggles against God, by the same token acknowledges Him, since it is impossible to struggle against what does not exist. So every internationale has its own relation to God, although let us say a negative relation, a relation of denial — but a relation nonetheless.” – Metropolitan Vitaly 1971

Orthodox Mike

You’re a Nazi, Herr Weiner. A Nazi soldier for the Zionists, who goes and kills Arabs for the Israelis and for this secular godless liberal land. Nazi!!!

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Real profound, *******. I guess that makes me one of you, since it was your people who publicly declaimed support for the National Socialist ideals and struggles. Or did you miss that, you Traditionalist Youth? How do you spell Matt Heimbach?
http://www.tradyouth.org/2013/12/nsm-interviews-matt-heimbach/ In case you missed it, it’s on this site. At least you’re being consistent with your sophomoric outbursts, though. Looks to me like you need more gratuitous sex – other than your right hand – it might make you a calmer person.

Fr. Matthew Harrington

Greetings in Christ.

In response to the article above I think if you read it you will see the Negro situation is the context for his Pastoral plea for the Russians who have left the faith to return. In the last two paragraphs he says such.

“But let us not think that this negro question, in that aspect in which we have tried to present it to you, is entirely foreign to us Russians. Consistently, a number of souls are leaving us, just as with every national group in the U.S.A. and Canada. Enthralled by easy lucre, submitting themselves to their simplest and most animal instincts and desires, many Russian Orthodox people are leaving the Church, forgetting their native Russian language, and adding themselves to the masses in the streets, to the black, faceless human herd. In fact, they are turning into white negroes, also without nation or tribe, useless both to the U.S.A. and to Canada. Sooner or later they will sit down alone on the defendant’s bench for having committed capital crimes, and will become a scourge for all of society.

The negroes are disturbed and are disturbing others because they are looking for themselves, looking for their God, for their root. But these apostates of ours are not looking for anything. Having been rich vessels of the grace of God, inheritors of the Kingdom of God, when they apostasize from the table of divine gifts they become great transgressors, manifest scoundrels, outstanding evildoers. A great ship takes a great journey — whether to the Kingdom of God or to utter hell, it is always a great journey.”

I am sorry but if you simply see Tribe, National, or some other key phrase from your own grammar and identify any piece produced by the a clergyman of the Orthodox Church as aligning with your own beliefs..I would suggest you rethink how you do your research and draw your conclusions. The Metropolitan clearly see the situation in the 60’s and 70’s as a model for the need of Christ in their lives as they are seeking him and to find their true calling in Christ. but for us who are in the Church to lay aside all earthly cares and see the one needful thing? Any use of the Negro situation in the historical context is a commentary on the human soul without God..and we are brought to the our need for repentance.

Orthodox Mike

Father, Bless. I totally understand the context, and I agree with every word the late Metropolitan states. I would wish everyone to come to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. But it still states that one’s tribe is important to our experience and to how we come to God.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Mike, that’s not what the Metropolitan states. This piece was written in 1971, and if you read Metropolitan Vitaly’s original Russian, he goes to great pains to point out that the new tribe is the tribe of regenerate Christians. When in his final declamation he calls on members of the Russian Orthodox Church to heed the lesson of the Negro, it has nothing to do with tribalism, but rather apostasy from the church. He warns that those members of the Church who have apostasized are no longer members of the tribe.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

I guess not, “Orthodox Mike.” It circulates around fake priests, guys without last names, and self-professed Nazis? Who knew?

Kyril Klimakos

“The culture of each nation is, first of all, its view of heaven, its relation to divinity in general, to the Holy Trinity if it be a Christian nation. This orientation toward heaven impresses its own deep mark on the activities of a given nation: on its life, its habits, its productions in any field, science, music and art. Every nation strives toward the Unembraceable, Boundless, Uncircumscribed God. The nation follows its own path, establishes its own heaven: Russian, German, French — but invariably its own. And God opens their heaven to them. Here we have the highest value of any nationality, the window, as it were, of every race into heaven, into the Kingdom of Heaven. There is no man without a nation or tribe, nor is there a religion without a nation, just as there is no nation without a religion. These two phenomena are mutually dependent and cannot be separated either in time or in composition.”

It is clear from the Metropolitan’s article that he is lamenting the loss of Faith and Nationality of both the Negros and the Russians that have come to the U.S. and Canada. He mentions how Faith and Nation are meant to be inseparable. And how we are meant to be moving toward’s God within our own national collective rather than just as isolated individuals.

Kyril Klimakos

“many Russian Orthodox people are leaving the Church, forgetting their native Russian language, and adding themselves to the masses in the streets, to the black, faceless human herd. In fact, they are turning into white negroes, also without nation or tribe,”

I believe the above proves that the Metropolitan puts great importance on being a part of a real national collective. And he mentions it together with the Faith and moving towards God. He is saying, not only do they need Orthodoxy but they also need to be a part of a real national collective of their own.

Kyril Klimakos

There is no man without a nation or tribe, nor is there a religion without a nation, just as there is no nation without a religion. These two phenomena are mutually dependent and cannot be separated either in time or in composition.” – Metropolitan Vitaly

Kyril Klimakos

“Our Orthodox theology regards the national factor as belonging to the Divine Order and Will”
“Orthodox faith has thus identified itself with our consciousness as a people, the Church being above all, the Church of the Romanian nation, of all generations.”
-Metropolitan Nestor Vornicescu
born October 1 1927 – died May 17 2000

When one places the words of Metropolitan Vitaly next to Metropolitan Nestor things start to make sense

Kyril Klimakos

They (the negro) will not be able, through purely external circumstances, to cohere into a nation with its own culture, its own relation to God-in a word, its own religion.”

“The only way out of this spiritual jam into which the negro question lead is the illumination of the negros with the light of Holy Orthodoxy,”

Maybe, and I think this is the point of Metropolitan Vitaly’s article, if negros on this continent, as a people, accept the light of Orthodoxy they will be able to once again cohere into a nation with their own culture and relation to God.

Orthodox Mike

Amin. The Palestinians, particularly the Christian ones who get it from both sides, deserve our respect and support. Shame on this country for supporting the Zionist genocidal agenda. The State of ‘Israel’ is a true Nazi State, that’s why the idiots in Ukraine are a happy marriage of Jews, neo nazis, and Western elites.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Mike, you really can’t study political science by correspondence from Strayer. You’re clueless. Why don’t you just go to your own ranks: Heimbach is a self-professed Nazi, and he thinks that’s great. There are no Nazis in Ukraine, and the only jackass who’s acting like a Nazi is Putin. Likewise, israel has its problems, but then again, so does Hamas. Calling them Nazis is stupid, because they’re not. All of you need to read a bit more history if you’re going to pretend to understand what’s going on down there. The so-called Palestinians have no more right to be there than the Israelis do. There never was a state named Palestine, nor were there a people called “Palestinian” until recently. There were numerous tribal confederations, but they were just as specious as the ones which made up the rest of the Middle East. It was expedient and served propaganda purposes to keep “Palestinians” in refugee camps. The fact is, there are numerous Arabs who are voting citizens of Israel who don’t live in refugee camps. At the time of the UN resolution, the population of the area was miniscule, andd at the time of the Herzl Judenstaat, the population of Jerusalem was completely insignificant. It certainly wasn’t a “Palestinian” city. It was a Turkish regional capital. And when the British took over the mandate – which was mandate from a now defunct organization, it was as an occupying force of territory formerly belonging to Osmanli Turks, not “Palestinians.” Learn your history.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

And yet, I belong to a canonical jurisdiction, have a canonical priest, who is under a canonical bishop and I also have a last name. None of the aforementioned call me on the carpet for my views. You hang out with self-professed Nazis, at least on the internet, and the leader of this page is excommunicated. You’re afraid, “Orthodox Mike,” afraid because you are an insignificant piece of pretend Orthodox shit. Putin, huh! You understanding of politics is almost as sharp as your understanding of theology.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Tell that to all of the mothers whose little boys are coming hoim in body bags, dipshit. Of course, I can’t expect you to understand any of that, since you have no clue what service is. Yes, “Orthodox Mike,” you’re not only an asshole, you’re a stupid asshole. And you’re not Orthodox.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

That’s a good Orthodox asshole! Your bishop – if you have one – must be really proud of you!

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

You know, asshole, I never wished death upon you. What makes you think you’re Orthodox. That’s a real good attitude. You’re real busy calling me a Nazi, yet it is your own people who self-profess to being Nazis. Do you really think that the entire world is that stupid? Go to your priest – if you have one – and see what he says.

Orthodox Mike

My priest is against Zionism and Globalism too, and is a Monarchist. I do apologize for the body bag comment, but your constant vulgarity and insults kind of makes it hard to be Christian toward you. You slander, libel, insult, and cuss, and expect nothing but charity. But you’re right. I will try not to repay your evil with evil.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

So what’s your problem telling us who your priest is? And what Orthodox Church you attend? I will go on record saying that there is NO canonical Orthodox priest in the United States who supports white power nazis a la Heimbach, who is self-professed, a point you refuse to comment on. And if you claim that he is in support of that, he’s not Orthodox. Orthodoxy is not about you, Mike. It’s about Christ’s Church. If you are afraid to admit which part of Christ’s Church you adhere to, it'[s a pretty good guess that you aren’t part of it. I know Heimbach isn’t. Throwing out words like Globalism and Zionism makes you sound like a Soviet propagandist. Suppoting Putin’s adventures merely underscores that you have no clue what’s happening in Eastern Europe. The new Soviet Union is falling apart at the seams, the ruble is plummeting, and Kyril, who, yes, is my Patriarch, is so afraid of his own shadow because he remembers what it was like when the Orthodox Church had to kiss the ass of the ruler in order to survive that he won’t use the bully pulpit because he doesn’t want top find himself the new bishop of the Magadan Oblast. Monarchists? Give me a break. The monarchy was executed precisely because it almost killed off Russia, and if some hairbrain were to come up with the idea of reinstituting it, then the barricades would be manned by Orthodox Christians and even clergy, just like it was in 1917, because the majority does not want to monarchy back. Popular movements are not destroyed by revolutionaries. Generally, revolutionaries are the popular movements. You have a rather disjointed view of history, Mike. read up a bit.

SBDN Thomas

The monarchy was executed precisely because it almost killed off Russia,

Your grasp of History is lacking. Did you receive a public education? Holy Russia was unprepared for a world war because she had just lost a war against Japan. Mainly due to British intelligence double crossing the Czar. Lookup the first use of long range radio in warfare. You may get a startling revelation.

and if some hairbrain were to come up with the idea of reinstituting it, then the barricades would be manned by Orthodox Christians and even clergy, just like it was in 1917,

I don’t know what anti-Christ propaganda machine you got this information from but it is 180% from the truth. You keep posting that you are in communion with the canonical Church. What priest supported the marxist-zionist revolution against God in 1917? I hope you are not referring to Stalin. He did not complete his seminarian studies.

because the majority does not want to monarchy back.

What does the minority vs. majority have to do with the truth? I thought you were trying to be Orthodox? Would you have sold out to the marxist in 1923? They thought they were in control back then.
Popular movements are not destroyed by revolutionaries.
No, they are subverted
You have a rather disjointed view of history,

Ah…….
SBDN Thomas a sinner

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

So, Subdeacon, are you another jurisdictionless cleric like the last one we had? I find it amusing that you think my view of Russian history is distorted. You’ve obviously never studied it. The Church was instrumental in the first revolutions, and it was the demonstration led by Father Gapon in 1905 which provoked the reaction by the autocratic forces which gave Nicholas the nickname “Bloody Nicholas.” And it was not the Bolsheviks who tossed out Nicholas, it was a collection of largely educated and even religious men, and not in the October Revolution, but in the March Revolution. Many of those men were still alive in my lifetime, active in the Russian Church in the US, and teaching on Russian faculties in the United States. The Ivys were full of them. The Church celebrated the dumping of the Tsar. Peter the Great had shut down the Patriarchate, and without exception, all of those “Orthodox Sovereigns” which followed him decided it was much smarter having a church which worked for the state rather than something indpendent which could cause trouble. The first thing the Church did after the Revolution was to institute reforms and reestablish the Patriarchate. The Church just didn’t calculate with the Bolsheviks, and the Bolsheviks correctly realized that dead sovereigns could not come back. Because of the troublesome times of the successive revolutions, many of the reforms which the Church had wanted to undertake – such as elimination of Slavonic – never were instituted.

Of the 50 million or so Orthodox in Russia at the time, it’s doubtful that even 10 percent really cared about the Tsar at that time. The peasantry detested the nobility, and the working class wasn’t much better. It would serve you well to read Tolstoy, who incidentally was excommunicated by the Church and died outside of it. You might also read almost every major Russian thinker from the mid 19th century on to the mid 20th century. Those are facts, regardless of what the official rightwing propaganda likes to tell you. Now, in good Soviet fashion, the churches are being restored when the government feels there’s a utility in doing so. Hey, it worked in World War II, and it’s apparently working now. That’s not because Putin is a true Believer. He’s much too busy boinking his Moslem girlfriend and conducting wars of aggression and annexation. And Patriarch Kyril? I guess it hasn’t been long enough for him to feel independent, and that’s why he will not use the bully pulpit to get Vova Putin to cool his jets. All of which might explain why Kyril has a palace right down the block from Vova’s place, wears $50,000 watches, and watches Russian fall apart. Did you notice that the exchange rate today went to 100 rubles to the dollar? A bunch of churches, thousands of them, have reopened, that’s true. But they are rarely full. Conservatively, if 12-15% of the nominally Orthodox population goes regularly, it’s a lot. I do have a bit more than passing familiarity with Russia, Subdeacon, and not even knowing you, I would venture to say it’s lightyears more than you have, both inside and outside the country. I’m not trying to bash you with this, but if you would like to discuss to greater extent, I, like only a small handful of people on this blog, have an identity. If you want to, contact me through the Liturgical pages I run in Facebook. This offer is, however, only good if you are a real person. I don’t like cowards, and Orthodox clergy – even subdeacons – who are so ashamed of their bishop that they can’t mention him are not worth chatting with. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Antiquariat-Hindrichs-Iconography-Liturgical-Antiquities-and-Relics/528752360575574?ref=bookmarks

SBDN Thomas

Forgive me for the disjointed post.
Can someone explain to me how to use the HTML quotes?

SBDN Thomas a sinner

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

By the way, my “evil” as you put it, is betyween me and my canonical confessor. Your following clowns like Heimbach is a direct repeat of an ideology which killed millions. I think I would rather deal with someone vulgar and coarse than someone who is a murderous thug. But hey, maybe in your strange version of the Orthodox Church the murderous thugs are theologically sound. So, who is this mythical priest of yours?

Orthodox Mike

One, you can think whatever you want. It’s Murika. I don’t owe you squat. Two, Matt is not ‘my leader’ and I do criticize his past paths, which he no longer adheres to. And Three, Putin is the greatest leader in the world at the moment, and I admire him, KYRILL, and Dugin (who is also in communion with the MP of whose ideology I am closest to).

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

I see you are still demonstrating the erudition and command of the language for which you are famous. There is absolutely nothing in Orthodox theology make makes a saint, specifically a passion bearer, which is a category of saint for those who “were killed while being Orthodox,” perfect in other regards. Talk to your bishop about it; he’s confirmn that. That is, if you have a bishop.

Idiot.

SBDN Thomas

 So, Subdeacon, are you another jurisdictionless cleric like the last one we had?
 No. LOL I’m Antiochian. Yet I consider myself an Old Calendar Resister.
 I find it amusing that you think my view of Russian history is distorted. You’ve obviously never studied it. The Church was instrumental in the first revolutions, and it was the demonstration led by Father Gapon in 1905 which provoked the reaction by the autocratic forces which gave Nicholas the nickname “Bloody
Father Gapon, under the financial support of Colonel Motojiro Akashi of the Imperial Japanese Army[2] organized the Assembly of Russian Factory and Mill Workers of St. Petersburg, which was also patronized by the Department of the Police and the St. Petersburg Okhrana (secret police). The Assembly’s objectives were to defend workers’ rights and to elevate their moral and religious status. He was the person to lead the industrial workers to the city of Russia during the year 1905 before bloody sunday with courage. Only persons of Russian Orthodox denomination were eligible to join its ranks. Soon the organization had twelve branches and 8,000 members, and Gapon tried to expand activities to Kiev and Moscow. Gapon was not simply an obedient instrument of the police; cooperating with them, he tried to realize his own plans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Gapon

So we now know either you are a communist heretic or a no nothing who likes to banter about big words he learned at school.
 Nicholas.” And it was not the Bolsheviks who tossed out Nicholas, it was a collection of largely educated and even religious men, and not in the October Revolution, but in the March Revolution.
Yes, I know, but it was the communist who killed the Holy Royal Family in an act of regicide.

Many of those men were still alive in my lifetime, active in the Russian Church in the US, and teaching on Russian faculties in the United States. The Ivys were full of them.

My life time as well. I am 48 and have been around the block a few times myself. The Ivys you write about have been killing America since the begining of the 20th Century. What your point here? Now if you were to cite someone for say St. Vladimir’s Seminary then you might not appear foolish.
 The Church celebrated the dumping of the Tsar.
The Orthodox Church? Really? I mean you seriously mean the Orthodox Christian Church?
You must be referring to Orthodox Jews right?

Peter the Great had shut down the Patriarchate, and without exception, all of those “Orthodox Sovereigns” which followed him decided it was much smarter having a church which worked for the state rather than something indpendent which could cause trouble.
I do agree with you that Russia has had many bad leaders. How many of these people were even Christian? They were anointed by God as the head of a Christian Country, but did they conform themselves to the will of God?

The first thing the Church did after the Revolution was to institute reforms and reestablish the Patriarchate.

Yes, Saint Tikhon said he did this to fight the Bolsheviks. It was a good move for the Church. How do you perceive this as a revolutionary move? It’s counter revolutionay at it’s heart.

The Church just didn’t calculate with the Bolsheviks, and the Bolsheviks correctly realized that dead sovereigns could not come back. Because of the troublesome times of the successive revolutions, many of the reforms which the Church had wanted to undertake – such as elimination of Slavonic – never were instituted.

What?

Of the 50 million or so Orthodox in Russia at the time, it’s doubtful that even 10 percent really cared about the Tsar at that time. The peasantry detested the nobility, and the working class wasn’t much

Where are you pulling these numbers from? Citation please?
It would serve you well to read Tolstoy,
No communist distortions there. Next, you are going to claim his abandonment of his wife and kids was a Christian act of kindness for Jesus!
who incidentally was excommunicated by the Church and died outside of it.
Again you cite a person who is living outside of Russian Culture as an authority.
You might also read almost every major Russian thinker from the mid 19th century on to the mid 20th century.
Because you have, right?

Those are facts, regardless of what the official rightwing propaganda likes to tell you. Now, in good Soviet fashion, the churches are being restored when the government feels there’s a utility in doing so. Hey, it worked in World War II, and it’s apparently working now

At lest we agree on WWII.

That’s not because Putin is a true Believer. He’s much too busy boinking his Moslem girlfriend and conducting wars of aggression and annexation.

Did you get this from CNBC, or CBS?
And Patriarch Kyril? I guess it hasn’t been long enough for him to feel independent, and that’s why he will not use the bully pulpit to get Vova Putin to cool his jets. All of which might explain why Kyril has a palace right down the block from Vova’s place, wears $50,000 watches, and watches Russian fall apart.
He has done nothing but good for Orthodoxy. I am, surprised. The Holy Spirit must be using him. I had suspected him of being a KGB agent, but withheld my judgment.

Did you notice that the exchange rate today went to 100 rubles to the dollar?

Nothing new . The West has always tried to kill Orthodoxy.

A bunch of churches, thousands of them, have reopened, that’s true. But they are rarely full. Conservatively, if 12-15% of the nominally Orthodox population goes regularly, it’s a lot. I do have a bit more than passing familiarity with Russia,

Apparently you must have familiarity with the non-Russian parts of the Federation. There is a spring time renewal of the Church in Russia. Even the enemies of Russia admit it. It’s a shame you don’t.

Subdeacon, and not even knowing you, I would venture to say it’s lightyears more than you have, both inside and outside the country.

What?

I’m not trying to bash you with this, but if you would like to discuss to greater extent, I, like only a small handful of people on this blog, have an identity. If you want to, contact me through the Liturgical pages I run in Facebook. This offer is, however, only good if you are a real person. I don’t like cowards, and Orthodox clergy – even subdeacons – who are so ashamed of their bishop that they can’t mention him are not worth chatting with.

I don’t have a Bishop right now. My old one was just elevated and consecrated to the Holy Episcopacy, His Eminence Metropolitan Joseph. I was tonsured eight years ago, but have been Orthodox for 21 years. I live in Corona California. I don’t do facebook, I already have a big enough ego. Would you like to come by for beers sometime?
SBDN Thomas a sinner

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

You can’t pick and choose or cherrypick, Mike. Ask your bishop how he feels about St John Chrysostom’s quotes on jews, and if he says it provides you reasons to hunt down Jews, I will be happym to tell him publicly to go screw himself. I suspect no one in the real Orthodox Church will have a problem with me on that. You’re a small-minded idiot.

Orthodox Mike

St John Chrysostoms quotes on Jews? LOL Try all the Church Fathers quotes on them! It’s not like it was some isolated opinion, Herr Weiner. And who the hell ever even talked about hunting anyone down? Now run along like a good soldier boy and go and fight for your apostate masters. Go make the world safe for Globalism.. er… ‘democracy’. You stick to your PC watered down Ameridoxy, and I will continue to listen to the Eurasian bishops, the Saints, and the Church Fathers.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Mike, you are full of shit: If any of the “Eurasian bishops, the Saints, and the Church Fathers” have a relevant comment for today which causes us to discriminate against our fellow man on the basis of skin color, and such a stance is supported by any Patriarch or Bishop of a canonical church, then I will happily call for pissing on the Church and joining those who would destroy it by violence. I intentionally used such a radical comment, knowing that if there were something to that, this would be a great opportunity for you to get me excommunicated. It won’t happen, because I may be crude, but you are wrong.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

No one said anything about “PC,” idiot boy. I said “canonical.” If you don’t have a canonical bishop, you’re not Orthodox. Period.

Werner Saemmler-Hindrichs

Again. I am Orthodox, and you are just mentally deficient.

Bonnie Johnstone

Have you never read how God cursed those who looked down on Moses wife who was not of the same race as Isreal?
Your comments are disgusting and ungodly!

Alfred the Great

I come across your website when I search certain ideas in preparation of my current book project. I have only read a few of your articles, but, so far, they are on point. Bonnie’s comment is typical of those who don’t really study Scripture and cling to what they have been taught by the clergy. Your comments are well founded and any unbiased study of Scripture supports your conclusions. Your conclusions are, therefore, Godly.

Black Orthodox Christian Girl

This is the Orthodox Church Position on your position on race:
“We censure, condemn, and declare contrary to the teachings of the Gospel and the sacred canons of the holy Fathers the doctrine of phyletism, or the difference of races and national diversity in the bosom of the Church of Christ. – Article I of the Decree of the 1872 Council of Constantinople.

With those words, the pan-Orthodox council of bishops assembled in Constantinople (Istanbul, Turkey) in 1872 condemned racial segregation in the Orthodox Church.”

sourced: https://blogs.goarch.org/blog/-/blogs/racism-condemned-as-heresy-in-1872

You are Anathema!

Matt Parrott

Nobody here is calling for the Church to racially discriminate. Please take a moment to understand what “phyletism” is before you engage in the rather grave and serious practice of declaring people anathema.

Benny

What of mixed race people..?recentely mixed.dont say marry a mixed person,what if you’re mix is unlike any other mix?what if you’re father if white?what if almost no one has your exact same mix of nationalities?

Denver Goddess

In terms of mixes with whites, they’ve always been taken in by the non-white community and reared accordingly with little difficulty.

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