Is My Race My Nation? Doubts Concerning White Nationalism

"Merchant Receiving a Moor in the Harbour", by Nicolaes BerchemDear Matt Parrott,

I have decided, in light of your recent “Tribe vs. Tradition” article to express my views on race in America. This article is not being written for the purpose of defaming, or even debating you brother Matthew. I consider it a privilege and honor to know you in person and consider you a friend. I should warn that the majority of those who read the TradYouth Blog may not appreciate my views on race, but quite frankly, that does not matter. You and I both know that Traditionalists do not concern themselves with agreeing with the mob; they look for the Truth with a capital T, wherever it may be found.

I appreciate that you elaborate, quite superbly, the difference between “Tribe” and “Tradition.” One could say I might be one of the Radical Traditionalists whom you refer to who may have issues with the “tribal” mission of Tradyouth. However, I am not, like so many subscribers to Guenon, Schuon, Evola, Lings, Burchkhardt, Smith, Eliade, Valsan, and the like, an armchair metaphysicist. I also stand for “tribe” together with “Tradition.” I do not however, tribally identify with the so-called “European.” As I will explain, my “tribe” is of two traditions, first as a Shiite Muslim, second as an unapologetic American. This note will mostly be explaining my position regarding my identity as an American, not as a European.

Inshiallah, at a later date I will write more from the perspective of my spiritual tradition.

I would like to start off by telling you a story that helped shape my perception of race in America. Once, I was engaged in a discussion with a very near and dear friend of mine. My friend is an African-American who is the opposite, in every way shape and form, of the stereotypes perpetuated by either Black Entertainment Television or Stormfront. He is intelligent, well-mannered, holds down a job and is well-educated, having an accomplished degree in computer science, he is also completely drug-free of both legal and illegal poisons. I also never once heard him use any profanity or take the Lord’s name in vain.

Once we were having a discussion about the destructive role of Hollywood in the contemporary black community, after telling me how much he detested black entertainment television he said, “there are two kinds of Black people, there are black people who are ordinary black people, who represents the majority of African Americans, then there are those who BET creates.” He then hesitated and said, “The kind who are the word I don’t want to say around you!”

When I heard this, I was not offended, I was not outraged, and I did not feel “discriminated against” or anything of that nature. I did not say, “How dare you! Don’t you know the scientists have proven that we are all the same, we share the same DNA!?” I simply acknowledged and respected that, despite our friendship, there was a cultural barrier between us, and that I, for whatever reason, would not understand the implications of the infamous “N” word. The African-American, just like the Native American, has gone through a different struggle then the European American, struggles which carved out distinct identities within this great land.

What do I make of this? It would be easy to simply leave this here and say that what I learned was that communities function the best when they are separated. Black communities and White communities looking after their own, which is what a lot of subscribers to our blog seem to believe. I know that this is not what you are saying in your article, but you have on other occasions, such at the protest against Tim Wise at Indiana State University stated that there should be the option for those who desire it, to opt out of integration, with no animosity for those who wish to integrate.

Quite simply, why should I, as an American, identify only with so-called “white” people? My ancestors have been here since the 1600’s when they fled seeking asylum during the English restoration, having previously served in Cromwell’s army. Their descendents: my American ancestors, fought tooth and nail in the continental army to free their land from the British Empire. These early Americans were not “white nationalists,” they were Americans. While they were far from believers in racial equality, they had an identity distinct from those across the Atlantic Ocean, which drove them to assert the “Monroe doctrine” which stated that Europe did not have a right to interfere in the affairs of our greater American world, which include both North and South America.

More importantly, if in case, you or anyone else would appeal to the founding fathers’ prejudice, it is very likely my ancestors had anti-Catholic sympathies, given that they were descendents of the men who assisted Cromwell in massacring the Catholics both in Britain and Ireland. From the 1830’s till the 1920’s, Catholic immigrants coming here were despised, seen as outsiders, and trampled upon. They were seen as non-white, non-American, non-Christian, nothing more than drunks, scum, and vagabonds here to serve a foreign emperor. While I of course, repudiate this view, as I have many friends who are Catholic and as a Traditionalist, I hold a higher opinion of Catholicism over most forms of Protestantism.

If I were to take your reasoning to it’s logical conclusions, It would be a betrayal of my roots to identify with “white” people who were descendents of Irish and Germans, or Catholics of any stripe for that matter. If what you say is true when you say,

“[T]he preservation of Tradition categorically entails loyalty to one’s forefathers and a sublimation of one’s will to the interests of future generations. Without this, the Golden Thread of ancient wisdom can’t be sustained against the undertow of decadence.”

Then joining a white nationalist ethno-state and seeing some random tailor in Sweden, wine maker in Italy, factory worker in Germany, or a secretary in the United Kingdom as my “folk” or my “people” as opposed to the Americans I have known and grown up with and are non-white seems to me, as a betrayal of my lineage. My ancestors shed blood in every single war this country has engaged in from the American Revolution through at least the Korean War. My great-grandfather would show me pictures of his Uncles and Cousins who were gassed by the Germans in the Great War; they fought against so-called “white Europeans” alongside African-Americans and Native Americans.

This latter point is also something I would like to emphasize. Our culture is every bit as much African and Amerindian as it is “European.” You note that this is the case in Mexico, and in many Latin American countries, but rather one would like to admit it or not, our culture in the Northern countries are also intersections of America, Europe, and Africa. In the United States of America at least, African Americans were part of this civilization from the very beginning, one of the intellectual framers of the revolution was the son of a former slave and a free African American, Benjamin Banneker.

Brother Parrott, you also acknowledge that so-called “multiculturalism” will not erase one culture.

“Lands like the Middle East, India, and North Africa have experienced racial admixture for thousands and thousands of years, and yet a colorful patchwork of distinct identities remains there, falsifying the Modern delusion to interracial pairings will ‘solve’ humanity’s racial ‘problem’.”

I could not have said this myself Mr. Parrott. The Middle East and Central Asia are multiethnic and multicultural salad bowls. This is not to pretend, not by any means, that there exists centuries of unity between these groups, but there is not necessarily conflict, simply because there are differences either, just like America, the history is one laced with conflict and cooperation. If the examples of cultures existing side-by-side and not witnessing the death of one group or the other refutes the cosmopolitans who want to see the differences of humanity bred out of existence, it is every bit as much of a refutation to the racialist position that diversity necessarily equals genocide. There are many profound examples of, what we would call a “Multi-cultural” society existing. Take for example, our neighbors across the Pacific Ocean, the great nation of Russia. Aleksandr Dugin has within his notion, promoted the cooperation of Russian Muslims and Buddhists under the united goal of a broader Russian civilization.

I can already expect an objection from either yourself or someone else who subscribes to a white nationalist mindset, my “American” identity is something new and constructed, when considering the previous 10,000 years of human, specifically “white” history. You may say that I need to look beyond my ancestors who settled this land and look deeper in my folksoul. Don’t narrowly think of the last 400 years, think of the contributions made by my European heritage, swell with pride at the Sistine Chapel, Dante’s inferno, Galileo Galilee, Charles Martel, Alexander the Great, and Socrates.

I am not saying that this is what you specifically will argue, but it is along the lines of a lot of white nationalist who stress Europe as “the ancestral homeland” for every European man, women, and child. To anyone who may argue this, all I have to say is, A “white” American identity is every bit as an artificial construct as an “American identity.” When has Europe ever had a united people? When have “our” people ever stood as one nation? Was it when the Visigoths destroyed the Roman Empire? Was it when the Romans committed genocide against my British ancestors; was it during the 100 years war? Or was it during the long and bloody two world wars? I do not begrudge European nationalists for wanting to keep Europe for Europeans, but that is a destiny for Europe to decide, not which I, as a non-European, have a stake in. When one considers the generations of hate that endured between Britain and Germany, I can only smile with the knowledge that I have blood from both cultures in my veins, representing what it means to be an American, to stand as a point of unity.

Now, let me be clear at to what I am not saying, I am not saying that Euro-Americans need to lie down and “die” like the joker Tim Wise advocates. My criticisms of white nationalism, and embrace of a non-white identity does not mean that I reject my European heritage, or am ashamed of it, as so many of associates are, if I have not made this clear before, I will make this clear now. As an American, I am proud of all the cultures which have contributed to our grand civilization, and I acknowledge and am proud of my particular place as a European-American, even as an European American, I acknowledge that my struggle is fundamentally different from the African-American and the Native American, as exemplified by the story I told at the beginning of this letter.

Also, I need to stress that I am not trying to dictate to others how they should live their lives, just as you respect my right to integrate, I don’t begrudge others who seek freedom of association. If people want to live in colonies belonging to strictly of one ethnic and/or religious group then I cannot stop them anymore then any other group who opt out of modern society, rather these colonies are based on race, sexual orientation, or lifestyle choices, for I would not try to take action against colonies of lesbians or nudists anymore then a private colony of white people. However, I personally would have no interest in a self-segregated colony. In the wake of an all out separation of the United States, as some have been predicting, and that you seem to hint at in your most recent article “America will Stand Alone.” I as a Shiite Muslim first and foremost, would want to live in either Dearborn Michigan or Los Angeles, California, for these are the two most populate Shiite Muslim sections of Northern America, the former being inhabited by Lebanese-Americans while the latter inhabited by Iranian-Americans. For what concerns me, before anything else, is the salvation of my immortal soul, and achieving the knowledge of Irfan, or Gnosis.



Good article, but if you’re of English stock as you say, then why do you “swell with pride” at Socrates and Alexander the Great? They are considered “White” for the same reason that the pyramids were said to have been built by “White people.” If you’re willing to go that distance and take ownership of Socrates or Alexander, why not go further and take pride in the Great Wall of China or Mayan mythology?


George– I, too, identify as American.

White Christians, my ancestors, built this country and devised the laws under which we live today. This is a fact.

America is now more racially mixed than ever before. “White” people constitute a smaller percentage of the American population than ever before. Another fact.

Our government has put laws in place that directly discriminate against white people; employers cannot hire based on merit alone, they’re forced to hire people based on the color of their skin. Universities are doing the same in their admission processes, denying more-qualified white applicants based strictly on the color of their skin. I’m sure you’re familiar with what I’m talking about; liberals call it “progress”.

In light of these facts, I think it’s perfectly appropriate for TYN and other similar organizations to begin advocating for white Americans. There seems to be a void in society at the moment; there is no mainstream pro-white organization that has achieved respectability and is not considered “racist”– and remember, these organizations exist for every other race/ethnicity in the United States, and white people are the only Americans who have to deal with government-approved discrimination in the workplace.

You may not have undergone the same race-based “awakening” that Mr. Parrott and many others have, possibly because you haven’t been directly affected by discrimination. However, it’s certainly not beyond the pale for TYN to be a pro-white organization that discusses race openly. They have nothing to apologize for in that regard.

Furthermore, the description of your Afro-American friend, while surely accurate, drifts into “liberal apologist” territory. You say “there are black people who are ordinary people, who represent the majority of African Americans, then there are those that BET creates.” This is a misleading statement, plain and simple, and if I had a “Get Real” button I would have slammed it after reading that part.

I’m not sure where you live, or how many black people you know. I can only speak from my own experience, having lived and worked in 3 different states with large black populations. The idea that “most” black people are like your friend– “intelligent, well-mannered, holds down a job, and is well educated” is patently absurd. The VAST MAJORITY of black people in this country fall into the BET category. And I’m not even talking about the ones who have no job, education, etc., I’m talking about nearly ALL of them, educated and uneducated alike. Don’t believe me? Check out any predominantly black school, see what the young kids are like. Walk around a college campus and tell me if you see more black kids in the W.E.B. DuBois mode or the Soulja Boy mode. The picture you paint of blacks in this country just doesn’t ring true– you may get a liberal who lives in Vermont, where white people work at McDonald’s, to believe it, but anyone who has lived around black people knows better. Black males between the ages of 18-27 make up around 3% of the population in America, yet they represent over 90% of the prison population. The “BET culture” is the dominant culture of black America, and it’s not even close. To suggest otherwise makes you sound either uninformed or disingenuous.

George Skanderbeg

Dear Marvin120,

I am not sure if you caught this, but I as well, come from a family lineage that consists of white Christians who settled here a century before the American revolution. If I didn’t make as much of an effort as i should emphasizing that I am proud of my European heritage, and acknowledge that my European-American Identity exists within an umbrella context of the African-American, Native American, and Amerindian, together with other non-white American communities.

I also apologize if I let on, even for a second, that I support the nonsense and discrimination called affirmative action, which disadvantages not only white people, but especially the white working class. I do not, for a second, support Affirmative Action programs.

As for your other objection that I am being disingenuous, I was simply quoting what my friend told me, not making a statement about the dominant attitudes in the Black Community. It’s funny because I also have many African friends (currently attending post-graduate education) who tell me that they do not consider themselves “African-American” because they reject what they consider “mainstream” African-American culture, which is one, in their opinion, coming from places like Nigeria, Senegal, and South Sudan, of disrespect. However, please forgive me if I don’t jump onto the “politically incorrect” wagon and state that race causes crime, for, at risk of sounding like a latte liberal, we should pay more attention to poverty, racial profiling, and the like, I also think it is fair to talk about poisonous attitudes in the black community, as another Afro-American women i knew completed a Senior Thesis at the college near I grew up on how the problem with the black community is that it doesn’t have good role models, and that there needs to be a cultural reformation in the Afro-American community. Admittedly, I grew up in an all-most all-white neighborhood, but many, if not most, the upper-middle class kids who I grew up with smoked pot, snorted coke, and drove drunk. You know why are prisons are overcrowded? It is because of the war on drugs perpetuated by a corrupt system which is at the intersection of government and corporate power called the prison-industrial complex.

Also, one last note, if you think this a “criticism” of Matt Parrot, or the TYN in general, that is not the case. As I stated before, and as Parrot can confirm, i have the privilege of knowing Parrot in person. I have been advocating on the street away from the comfort the armchair and internet anonymity for the TYN for about six months now, and Parrot can verify that as well.

All the Best
-George Skanderbeg.


Marvin — if TradYouth goes into the direction you envision, it’ll just be another shallow White yawn, utterly irrelevant to history — Parrott himself wrote in the previous (and mentioned above) article that TradYouth’s project, albeit “incredibly ambitious” is to UNITE identitarian and Traditionalist radicals from across ethnic and cultural lines.


I can confirm that Mr. Skanderbeg has been authentically supportive of the project and that his education and perspective makes him a uniquely valuable member of TradYouth.


why should I, as an American, identify only with so-called “white” people? My ancestors have been here since the 1600’s when they fled seeking asylum during the English restoration, having previously served in Cromwell’s army.

My identity…. maybe like every identity… is not the least a NEGATIVE identity: I belong to the Whites…: because I don´t belong to the Blacks !
So THAT´S why I identify with White People: because I certainly don´t identify with black people !

Solution may be not difficult: I heard various times, e.g. from Keith Preston: ok: there is a certain percentage of people who like to live in mixed areas. Then there is a percentage of people who like to live in non-mixed areas
-> so what´s the problem? You just demarcate the respective areas.

I can very well understand those who see value in living in mixed areas. So let´s have both. It´s like that anyways: the big métropoles are the mixed areas from time beginning. Be it like that. And, e.g., the rural areas are the segregated areas…
I think it´s not very hard to do!

My rule is: if you live in a non-mixed area: if you have mixed children: they can´t live in that area!
-> so…. my take is that this will considerably reduce race-mixing. Since, when Janette Sixpack realizes that she has to move away from the functioning White Area if she loves the romantic Colored so much… she will think… many times over before procreating with those!

(White People might even live AMONG Non-Whites: if they are simply allowed to advocate their interests, i.e. to WANT themselves, to encourage White births, to encourage white networking, to discourage mixed-race procreation. This is as per today impossible, nay criminalized).

Orthodox Mike

If you identify with “whites” because you don’t identify with “blacks” as your only criterion, I feel sorry for you. Ethnicity and being a People is wayyyy more than skin color and some familiar features. I have a feeling many “White Nationalists” do not understand this, which is why I do not use that term for myself, personally.


That’s fine. I applaud Mr. Skanderbeg for his participation, and it’s clear from his article and his response to my comment that he’s considerate and well-spoken.

That being said, I stand by everything I wrote in my previous post. I do not buy the whole “corrupt system targeting black people” excuse that Mr. Skanderbeg hinted at; there may well be sociological reasons for young black males’ criminal behavior, but the blame lies squarely at the feet of the black community: bastards begetting bastards, unborn children murdered at an alarming rate, the culture of dependance that is perpetrated by the “blame others for my situation” mentality. Booker T. Washington was both a hero to Afro-Americans and a man who would agree with many of TYN’s ideals, and he would be disgusted by the current state of the black community in America.

And I fully agree with Mr. Skanderbeg’s thoughts on America’s failed “war” on drugs, which has ruined the lives of far too many non-violent offenders. However, it doesn’t change the fact that the majority of VIOLENT crime in America is committed by a small part of the population– 18-27-year old black males. If the actions of my ancestors are to blame for this, I frankly don’t care. I’m not willing to pay for my ancestors’ crimes with my children’s safety, and to protect my family it’s important for me to maintain a realistic view of the situation. Again, I don’t have the luxury of living in Vermont, where Mr. Yankee Liberal can look down his nose at me and my disgusting “racism” while he sends his kids to an all-white public school. (private school is the only option where I live, and I’m certainly not a wealthy man. A man’s first duty is protecting his family)

And Blake– my comment was not meant to be a suggestion to Mr. Parrott and TYN on how to operate their organization; it was simply my reaction to Mr. Skanderbeg’s post. I do believe TYN has a decidedly pro-white lean though, despite your suggestions to the contrary.


Once the words “as a Shiite Muslim” were uttered there was nothing else to be said. Any one who cling to that universalist, alien religion of whores is not worthy of dialogue. Is the hatred of the left, modernists, etc. So great that we have to ally ourselves functionally or even intellectually with someone like this? The world of tradition has no room for Islam. His motives show through his surface level respect for our ideals.

George Skanderbeg

“The world of tradition has no room for Islam.”

It would appear that you don’t even seem to be acquainted, even vaguely, with the philosophy of Traditionalism. Guenon, Schuon, Lings, Valsan, Nasr, Burckhardt were/are all Muslim. Tradition is processed through Islam, precisely the esoteric initiatory chain of Shiite Islam, just as profoundly as through Orthodox Christianity and Vedanta.

Leslie H. Higgins

Mr. Skanderbeg, a worthwhile piece from another perspective. Don’t listen to Seditionairre; while as a Catholic I disagree with Islam on theology, I have immense respect for its opposition to usury, support for sound money (I am a particular fan of Islamic dinars and dirhems, and have purchased one of the latter; I encourage all nationalists looking for a moral investment to look up Islamic dinars and dirhems) and its moral law, and have read the Qu’ran even if I may have not digested much of it.

As a traditionalist conservative I prefer to eschew ideology, but one of my principles is the preservation of ethnoracial identity. In the past, of course, this was readily possible in the United States, but as this nation is now at the center of a global economic and military empire bent on destroying Tradition in every form for the sake of the market, it is hard to identify as American. The nation, in the sense of the regime, has betrayed the people. Yes, I do have retain American identity, but as White peoples all across the West are despised simply because they are White, most of the time I’d say my identity as northern European is stronger. In any happy future, I think there should continue to be American identity, but not in such a monolithic sense. A Yankee myself, I support secession and independence for the South, and think New England could develop a meaningful identity, as well as deepen its extant but marginalized English and Irish Catholic traditions, best on its own. There is already a group trying to free one state from the empire, Second Vermont Republic. May such efforts be multiplied across New England and the rest of America!

As you say, Amerindians and Black Americans also have American identity. I do think it possible European Americans could live alongside them and still secure their interests. As Hunter Wallace has documented extensively, White identity first became prominent, and racial differences manifest for all to see, in the colonial Caribbean. But not under an egalitarian regime! Usually for peaceful coexistence one group must be dominant with others as protected minorities, as in Moorish Spain. A pretense of colorblindness is a sure invitation for ethnocentric groups to prey on those who opt for individualism.

Two more things: Definitely choose Dearborn! Los Angeles is overwhelmingly mestizo, and I think at this point we may as well give it back to the Mexicans who outbred us, fair and square. Also, what is your opinion of the Islamic Republic of Iran?

Deo Vindice!

George Skanderbeg

Master Higgans,

Thank you so much for your gracious response. I also, as I mentioned, hold a high opinion of Roman Catholicism. I grew up in a town that was 65% Catholic, received my bachelors from a wonderful Catholic University, and from my time there till today I have studied the Bible, Blessed Augustine, Saint Ignatius of Loyola. Meister Eckhart, Dante, Saint Bonaventure, and hildegard von bingen.

As for my opinion of the Islamic Republic of Iran, i have to say that I love the Iranian people, but I do not like the current leadership in charge. Perhaps this is a bias from the people I know, but I have many Iranian friends, none of whom respect the current leadership, as it gives a bad name to both the Iranian people and the Religion of Islam. Also, the Family of the Prophet(as) were all in agreement saying that ruling, legislating the Shariah, was a right reserved for an Imam, as in, one who was annotated to serve as the intermediary between God and Man, which, according to Twelver Shiite Islam, is Imam Mehdi, who resides in the Spiritual world, whom we await the return of. I also have heard allegations that Israel and the United States may have engineered the overthrow of the Pahlevi regime after Muhammad Shah planned to breach with the US government, how I do not have the knowledge to confirm or deny this allegation yet.

Salaam Alykum Wa Ramtallah.
-George Skanderbeg.


You should move to a Muslim country. And give your head a shake.


At some point, it stops mattering whether people promote anti-traditional, anti-white ideas with malicious intentions or without them. The net effect is still the promotion of ideas that support the ongoing destruction of our peoples which, ironically enough, is also the highest priority of the West’s capitalist, media, globalist and secular Jewish elites. As a secularist, I use this formulation metaphorically, but the promotion of these ideas in very concrete ways furthers the Western elite’s Satanic agenda. Anything that strengthens their hand, as intellectual attacks on white racial nationalism do, and, again, intentional or not, furthers the globalists’ efforts to take Satanic anti-tradition global.

Orthodox Mike

Traditionalism and white nationalism are not interchangeable terms. Some concerns overlap, but they are different schools of thought.


I understand that. It’s still true that the proponents of any strain or interpretation of traditionalism that undermines the intellectual basis of white racial/ethnic politics serves globalist interests.

Orthodox Mike

How about WNism that has served globalist interests, like in Ukraine?


First, this is non-responsive to my point. Second, Ukraine’s Pravy Sektor does not have the pan-European outlook that American WNsts advocate for, so they’re a poor example of WNsts helping further globalist interests in Ukraine. I assume you are referring to Western globalism, not the anti-traditional Russian form of it being pushed out of Moscow by Vladamir Putin.

Pravy Sektor is an example of a petty nationalist group. When people or groups promote hyper-narrow, petty nationalisms, as Pravy Sektor does, they do in fact serve globalist interests. But they do it by keeping European communities divided and fighting with each other. Consequently, they are impediments to European peoples uniting against common enemies who think terms people of color versus white. Thus, Pravy Sektor promotes almost the exact opposite of a WNst perspective.

The common denominator between Pravy Sektor and this writer’s brand of traditionalism is their rejection of the strategic, forward-looking perspectives that need to be promoted to turn back the globalist project to genocide whites long term.

Robert Pinkerton

Race as Nation?
Colloquially “nation” is used to denominate a country. We White folk are majority of the population of several countries, with separate Bodies Politic. I belong to only one of these Bodies Politic, the United States of America.

I am White; and my ancestry on both paternal and maternal sides is White as far back as the genaeology enthusiasts in either family, can reach. On my father’s side, ancestry is mostly Scotch-Irish and Borderer, with half a quartering of German. On my mother’s side, it is mostly Polish with half a quartering of German and half a quartering of Russian. (And, yes, there is no Jewish ancestry, which some White Nationalists say would disqualify me as White — however, every Jewish person I have ever known in all my seventy years looks just as White as I.) So what would I be? Generalized Euro?

I think that both White Nationalists and “professional(?) anti-racists(?!)” would be disappointed by the fact that I simply never have thought that being White is any kind of big deal.

When I was thirteen, I got struck reproductively sterile in the very last baseball game I ever played: I caught a batted line-drive squarely in the crotch. The Roman Catholic religious brother who umpired the game said I bowed at the hips like a Japanese, and tumbled forward; what I remember is an explosion of yellow-white agony, followed by waking up on a gurney in an emergency room several hours later, during which time I had got X-rayed while I was out, to determine whether any bones were broken. Painful as this was, I fully sincerely — no irony express nor implied — thank my Gods from the bottom of my heart* for my sterility, as it means that no flesh of mine will be touched by the corruption to come as the Body Politic sinks further into deliquium. (*I could say, on bended knee, but my Gods do not require their worshippers to kneel, but rather want us standing upright.)

I was raised to civic nationalism and Constitutional patriotism. These have been overtaken and left behind by events, including fifty-plus years of detrimental social change; I could be a Conservative, except there is nothing left to conserve — and I believe, as to the rest of this century to come, that the child most fortunate of all is the one never conceived in the first place, and second most fortunate is aborted in utero directly pregnancy is detected.

Too, my own Faith believes in reincarnation. One White Nationalist, “Chechar,” condemns reincarnation as “un-Aryan.” He never explained this, insofar as I have read his writing, but I would guess the reason why, is that one cannot know whither, or among whom, one will reincarnate. (One could imagine a serving of poetic justice in an incandescently-hot anti-Semite reincarnating an a hared or hasid!) This not knowing where one will spend one’s next incarnation, if one takes it seriously, attenuates development of racism. On the other hand, I am strictly polite to such persons of other races as I encounter: Good manners are a screen, and the screen would be more effective still if we who were born to the English language, had not lost the distinction between tu and vous, Du and Sie, ti and vi.

I read WN sites, and I read the SPLC site, because I regard the controversy between the two opposing tendencies as a spectator sport. Fifty years ago when I was an undergraduate, I found my most humorous entertainment in the vituperation exchanged between campusInto which this preface — and I apologise for its length — leads, is the question: Why should I become a White Nationalist? Marxist sectlets that might have been no more that five degrees apart; and I found post-Reformation vituperation and contumely in disputation between Catholics and Protestants equally humorous. So, into which this preface — and I apologise for its length — leads, is the question: Why should I become a White Nationalist?


Why indeed should you give up your godlike superiority to these petty mortal conflicts? Because you may not be interested in the hostile elite, but the hostile elite is interested in you!


Mr. Skanderbeg,
This thread brings me back to my comment that “Traditionalism” may be meaningful as an intellectual construct that people of different traditions can explore together, but that does not mean that the different traditions are not mutually unintelligible and/or mutually hostile.

In my white Christian tradition, Islam is almost as hostile as any religion, people, or spiritual force can be, Moslems having killed and enslaved Christians, often forcing them to convert, nonstop for about 1400 years. Moslems occupy the former Christian heartlands of Anatolia, Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Libya, and Tunis. Those are the true Occupied Territories, my friend! Moslems have displaced and ground down the Christian communities in those places, and in Iraq and Iran. Moslems deny the divinity of Christ. Vast numbers of Moslems regard Christians as deadly enemies, and the feeling is mutual, except for liberal white Christians who regard Moslems as fellow sons of Abraham.

Given the history, the enmity, and incompatibility, my view is that there is no place for Moslems in America, at least no more than one family per town so they can’t get together and start thinking about their obligation to pursue jihad and lie to, conquer, murder, or enslave Christians.

In our tradition, a Christian who becomes a Moslem is a renegade, a suspect and dangerous type of person. It appears that, through no fault of your own, you were born into two conflicting, mutually hostile and mutually exclusive, traditions. I would invite you to consider joining ours, the tradition of white Christian Americans. I don’t see how you can be faithful to your settler ancestors as a Moslem. You know Dante’s view of Mohammed. He’s not in Paradise. Only you can know what will be truly authentic for you, though.

You are apparently a somewhat cultured person, so you have no doubt given these serious matters ample consideration. I would say that Mohammed, providentially, has led many Moslems to Christ. There are many converts, and for you it would be a return. (I also harbor the suspicion that it is also possible to reach salvation through worship of Christ under another name, as long as one acknowledges Him. That is as far as I go in bending the “One Way” message.)

A Traditionalism that stands outside of specific traditions and identifies their common interests seems like a merely intellectual curiosity. Separate enemy communities doubtless do have common interests for the foreseeable future against the globalists who are attempting to turn us all into nation-less, tradition-less fellaheen (Spengler’s word for the human dross left after a civilization has run its course). However, we have very different relationships to the globalists. They are using you, Moslem immigrants, to destroy us, white Christians, and make us give up our historic self-rule on this continent in accordance with our own religious traditions. Thus I don’t see that American Moslems can offer anything to white Christian America more valuable than their conversion or their departure. I would like to have you rejoin white Christian America, rather than persist, even as a temporary ally, in an enemy tradition. If you want to be a Moslem, why not move to a Moslem country, and take several other Moslems with you? Why sign up for being a member of a hostile and suspect (and troublesome) minority when you don’t have to?

By the way, just because people share values and inclinations does not mean they are not enemies. If identical twins are competing for the same patch of ground or piece of gold, they are enemies. Enmity does not necessarily mean lack of respect, so in your case don’t think I have any disrespect towards you personally. But I viscerally loathe seeing mosques on American soil (and on French, English, Swiss, and German soil), and I don’t think I’m unique in that feeling.

Since you read epic poetry, take a look at Fred Turner’s The New World. He foresees the “Uess” breaking down into separate counties with their own religions, including a new syncretic one in the main scene of the poem, in Ahiah.

Orthodox Mike

The problem Lew is that often times these postmodern nationalisms fly in the face of our Folkish traditionalisms.

George Skanderbeg

Dear Master KO.
I have prayed in Masjid’s both Sunni and Shiite, no Muslim I have ever advocated have ever called for “Jihad” against America. No Muslim I have ever known want to “displace” the local Christian population. As for your complaints about the history of Islam, I suggest you educate yourself about the relationship between the Imamate, the continuation of the Sacred Mission and Revelation through the righteous members of the Prophet’s household, and the traitorous Ummayad Dynasty, who were the ones who spread their empire from Central Asia to the gates of France.
Although, even so you claim these territories are occupied, however, Every land, from Constantinople to Tunisia were already in Muslim hands before Christopher Colombus stepped food in America. If were to turn back the clocks, which you seem that you might be hinting at, I guess that means we should both back our backs and travel back to Europe.
Yes, we do deny the divinity of Christ, but the beautiful thing about Traditional tolerance, as exemplified under the protection guaranteed to non-Muslims under the constitution of Medina and the Quran, for As Allah(swt) says “To you your religion, to me my religion” in Surah Al-Kafirun is that we can agree to disagree, we don’t have to come to a consensus on the truth in order to live next to each other.
Of course, history was not guns and roses, but the Christians who are being driven out of the Middle East now are being driven out by black hearted Devils called Wahabis, or Khawarjites as most Muslims, Sunni and Shiite condemn them. Those who are burning Churches and killing their worshippers have forgotten the commandments of the Quran and the teaching of the Prophet(saws) which prohibit said heinous acts.
You claim that the “feeling is mutual” but not at least the Christians I know. Outside of the internet, I have never wished a Christian, knowing I am Muslim, who wished me harm. I have friends who are Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, and Latter-Day Saint, done of them see me or my fellow Muslims driven from this shore.
You brought the argument which I was expecting for some time, that my conversion to Islam is betrayal of my settler ancestors, but taking that argument at face value, converting to Catholicism would also be betrayal of my settler ancestors, as would considering the “Papists” as my brothers in Christ, if I was to return to the Protestantism of my ancestors. If we take this at face value, what about the so-called “White Nationalists” who see Christianity as nothing but a Two Millenia domination of “our” European Pagan Civilization? So-called “White Nationalists” who attack my dear friends, Brother Matthew Parrot and Brother Matthew Heimbach for not renouncing Christianity, and say that until they realize that Christianity is not for the European, then they are not worthwhile individuals?
Thank you for your suggestions, I will, when I have the time, look into Fred Turner.
May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon you, brother KO,
-George Skanderbeg.


Mr. Skanderbeg,
Thank you for your courteous response. I’m glad to hear you have not run into open jihadism in mosques. I think there are enough jihadists that find shelter in Moslem communities for Americans to regard Moslems in general as hostile. I don’t think Huntington’s depiction of Islam’s bloody borders is a fantasy, nor are the Moslem terrorist attempts in the U.S. and Britain.

I have read a few books on the history of Islam and I would welcome further reading suggestions. However, I doubt any will touch the essence of my objections. Authors speak from various traditions, each of which has its own notions of proof and interpretation. There is the very popular and respected white-washing liberal tradition, represented by Bernard Lewis and Karen Armstrong, and there is the surly patriotic conservative tradition, represented by Srdja Trifkovic. I find the latter more compatible with my own white Christian American tradition.

Listing the Occupied Territories isn’t only an argument for turning back the clock. It is relevant to the past, the present, and the future. Historically, Islam is expansionist and totalitarian, yet an utter deadweight on civilizational development. Since you bring up 1492, that year the Spaniards expelled the Moslems and the Jews. The Moslems had been there 800 years, how dare the Spaniards set back the clock! But they did. Was that just out of prejudice? Those ingrates! After all the Moslems did for them!

I can’t say I’m impressed by your assertion of Moslem tolerance of other religions. Golden Age Islamic Spain is a liberal fantasy designed to make white peons accept the dissolution of their communities by hostile elites. Where Moslems rule, Christians are second class citizens. They enjoy limited, to no, protection. Moslems are also not good to have as a minority, either. Look at France and Britain.

All those Moslems who have forgotten the Koran, you say. That’s supposed to make us accept them here? It is an issue, though. Why should the few be blamed for the transgressions of the many, or vice versa? We can say it’s not about blame, but just about pragmatic security and prudence. Is it racist to avoid dangerous black neighborhoods because “a tiny minority” might rob or kill you? No, it’s simple prudence. You’re entitled to treat a group according to its worst examples, in some transactions. Walking through neighborhoods is one. Immigration is another.

I would not like to see you driven from this shore, either. I just don’t think there should be Moslem communities in America. But there are other things I don’t like. That is the consequence of having a sense of order and justice. I would like to see all immigration frozen, now, Moslem and non-Moslem.

As for betraying your settler ancestors by converting to Catholicism, that is the dilemma faced by all tradition-oriented Protestants who are alienated from their heretical liberal-progressive dominations whose leaders are allied with the hostile elites. Your settler ancestors had parents and grandparents who followed the Old Religion, so you could view Protestantism as an aberration. You could also simply disregard denominational differences with respect to accepting our Lord. No doubt all traditional Protestants could improve their situations in many ways by converting to Roman Catholicism. By the way, I think it is highly likely that on your Moslem side, your ancestors are Christian too, most likely Orthodox? By adhering to Islam, you’re betraying them too! And we Christians are betraying our pagan ancestors, so it becomes a reductio ad absurdum.

Have you ever read Christopher Hill’s The World Turned Upside Down? It surveys the amazing theological and intellectual ferment in the English Civil War era. There is a comment that one Protestant writer was leaning towards Islam.

Oswald Spengler classed Islam, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, and Christianity together as Magian religions, essentially similar and representing essentially a single Magian civilization. But Western, Faustian, Gothic civilization is another civilization entirely, which can scarcely comprehend the Magian. Thus as a Magian-Westerner, you may be similarly situated to Western Christians, pondering the Magian world from the Faustian vantage. Really, the Faustian is so pervasive throughout the world, one can ask whether there is anything else left.

If you read the poems of Walt Whitman, you can feel his inspiration with respect to a cosmic humanity, of which the American is the icon. However, you also would have to understand that that is a white American Protestant Transcendentalist perspective that assumes this white homeland of America, won from the Indians and dominated by whites. There is a demographic, political, and economic infrastructure for culture, and when we white Christian Americans want our culture and people to survive and thrive, we want them to be dominant in their own communities with the resources to thrive and protect themselves. Minorities may be able to participate, but not if they are going to undermine the culture or the economics or the politics. We have been down that road.

Mr. Parrott sees benefits to alliances among anti-globalist traditionalists, and no doubt he knows his business. That doesn’t mean that people from different, incompatible traditions should live together, if it can be avoided.

One last note. If you would like to free yourself of liberal rationalism, Neopopulism as Counterculture (Kaardal and Dahlberg) is an excellent book, advocating that the people take back government, which follows the liberal rationalist tradition in which rationalist experts are entitled to rule the people, and run government themselves in accordance with their own traditions of common speech, common sense, and religion. It is very good in describing what traditions are and how they operate, and why one changes traditions, which we can do.

Thank you for this discussion.


Mr. Skanderbeg,
We would like you to convert and join with us. To bring that about, we need to earn your love and respect. To do that, we need to show you Christ’s love for you and His love for us. His love for us relates to His willingness for us to protect our own, in His service. His love for you is an open invitation regardless regardless of the faults and limitation of his ambassadors. As to respect, you would not respect us and join with us if we were not prepared to protect our own. This can be brought about in His good time. But we should cut off immigration. You will never respect us if we are foolish enough to admit unlimited numbers of real and potential enemies.

We offer our love, community, learning, force, and hatred on the altar to Him. In what form He returns them to us is not for us to decide.

Fr. John+

“As I will explain, my “tribe” is of two traditions, first as a Shiite Muslim, second as an unapologetic American”

You cannot be one, if you are the other. Ft. Hood, the fall of Constantinople, and the utter evil of the ‘proposition nation’ denies you- or your position- any legitimacy. Just as a Christian’s is denied, in any Muslim state… and you know it, you lying dog. [ Matt. 15:27] or if you prefer, slave.

“But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” – gal. 4:30


Anathema sit.

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